Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Richard230]

Zero has announced a new touring DS for the European market.  It has lots of funky accessories attached, which look quite useful but are going to do nothing for the bike's aero drag numbers, as you can tell from their claimed range numbers.  Here is the story.  No word on pricing so far:  https://electricmotorcycles.news/zero-motorcycles-announce-new-dsr-black-forest-edition/

[Erasmo]

Heard some rumours about a new thing for Europe. It's nice to see that you can get it all in one set now and the paint job is good but again single phase J1772 charging...
Europe is covered in 3 phase chargers and DC charging along the motorways, the infrastructure is here already, please just let use it.
It still irks me that they dropped the Chademo option because some American charging networks were too lazy to adhere to the standards...

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I'm glad they're making this but for all the reasons stated above, putting the label "touring" on it just signifies to me how short they fall of the category. Just like labeling the DSR an "adventure" bike.

FWIW for forum readers, DigiNow's V2 chargers have a 3-phase option that's been installed for some customers with a Mennekes plug.

And hopefully soon we'll see a regular/easy install of DigiNow chargers around a bike with a Power Tank installed. THEN with a fairing, a bike could be more reasonably marketed for touring.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

For what it's worth, the DSR "touring" edition here should probably be able to cover 350 miles per day at 45-55mph. That is assuming that every charging stop uses the newest Charge Tank at its full capacity.

I will say that's the BEST figure any buyer could get out of a Zero using stock equipment, and kudos to Zero for reaching that. With the previous Charge Tank, 250-300 miles was what you could expect.

If you trail ride all day (25-45mph), you won't have to charge as often but you won't cover more ground. The problem is that avoiding highway speeds is not an option for everybody.

[MostlyBonkers]

Heard some rumours about a new thing for Europe. It's nice to see that you can get it all in one set now and the paint job is good but again single phase J1772 charging...
Europe is covered in 3 phase chargers and DC charging along the motorways, the infrastructure is here already, please just let use it.
It still irks me that they dropped the Chademo option because some American charging networks were too lazy to adhere to the standards...

+1 Erasmo!  I couldn't agree with you more. Type 2 charging is fine for destination charging, but not suitable at all for touring.  Zero are selling something that will just create disappointment for many buyers.  They need to refocus their efforts on CHAdeMO.  I don't know if Europe is any better at adhering to the standard, but I imagine it is.

On a more positive note, I got my first proper exposure to Energica last weekend at the EV event in London.  It has given me some more respect for Italian engineering. I was once told that 'Italian engineering' was an oxymoron and although I knew otherwise, it obviously stuck in my mind.

Energica have rapid charging built in. Unfortunately, I didn't have the presence of mind to ask about the standard, but it might be CCS. That's a shame, because it's German and CHAdeMO is more prevalent in the UK. I still can't forgive the Germans for two world wars, even though I wasn't even born...  How can an entire nation succumb to the charisma of a psychopath? Hmm... I'd better not start on politics as that last comment might upset a few Americans!

Anyhow, you'll be pleased to hear that Energica are flogging some pre-registered 2017 model bikes off cheap. If you want to take the risk, you can have something that outperforms just about every petrol bike on the road for a price that's close to buying a 2018SR with charge tank.

We're talking 200Nm of torque *with* traction control. We're also talking about 107 kW of power, or 140hp in old money.  Lots of other goodies like proper brakes with dual discs at the front. Good suspension and plenty of other good components. I think sat nav is built in and the colour dash looks pretty sweet too. Did I mention active cooling? No overheating of the motor or battery. That has to be good for lots of reasons.  My only real concern is the weight.  The Ego looked heavy, but I haven't seen the number yet. It was missing when I checked the specs on their website...

[MostlyBonkers]

I'm glad they're making this but for all the reasons stated above, putting the label "touring" on it just signifies to me how short they fall of the category. Just like labeling the DSR an "adventure" bike.

FWIW for forum readers, DigiNow's V2 chargers have a 3-phase option that's been installed for some customers with a Mennekes plug.

And hopefully soon we'll see a regular/easy install of DigiNow chargers around a bike with a Power Tank installed. THEN with a fairing, a bike could be more reasonably marketed for touring.

That's a fair post Brian. I've given the Diginow a lot of thought and whilst I have a tremendous amount of respect for what has been achieved, I don't think A.C. is the way forward.  Rapid D.C. Is the only thing that comes close to acceptable charging times for people who want to do some proper touring.  I'm also not keen on all the extra heat produced on-board by the inverter. It just seems messy to me. Fine for destination charging overnight, but not otherwise.

I'm in a dilemma. I test rode the 2018DSR on Saturday and I liked it. It's a great improvement over the 2014DS and yet it also feels very familiar to me.  One of those or an SR with a charge tank would tick a lot of boxes for me. It's just that I've been badly burnt by EV charging and range issues recently. I ditched my Kia Soul EV eighteen months into a two year lease. I still love my Zero for my commute, especially as I can charge it at work so I'm not suffering from low SoC power reductions in this cold weather.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I think AC charging with an aerodynamic fairing and about 20kWh of battery would make a Zero a touring bike.

DC charging is obviously desirable but accomplishes nothing in the vast tracts of North America and Europe where 220V AC is common and much easier to connect a Zero to (via J1772, Mennekes, NEMA 14-50, Tesla Destination plug, etc). DC charging also always requires a lot more money for any EV maker to support in terms of R&D, per-vehicle equipment cost, and potential failure handling.

You know what's really interesting, though? Electric motorcycles occupy this transportation niche where, because they consume half (or less) of what a car needs per mile, AC isn't so much slower than DC at range recovery that it impedes touring.

A 2018 Zero SR or DSR with a Power Tank has 18.0kWh of maximum capacity (~15.7kWh nominal) which at 100Wh/mile would make for a 150 mile range bike. Reducing consumption to 70% of that via fairings pushes the range beyond 200 miles, or alternatively adjusts the recharge time for a given distance by the same factor.

Terry predicted all of this a few years ago, and it has been terribly patience-trying to watch it unfold slowly, but it will happen.

I think we'll see in 2018 a Zero with Power Tank, maximum DigiNow investment, and a fairing that IS worthy of use for touring.

I'm personally aiming for 2019 unless I can unlock my personal budget or get some project-level investment going sooner than that.