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Author Topic: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30  (Read 1295 times)

MorbidBBQ

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Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« on: November 03, 2017, 06:38:58 PM »

When I accelerate hard (apply more torque), my belt skips.  I checked the tension, and see its 30kg (the top end of the spec).
I have the higher top speed gearing, and bigger spool.  Could this be why I'm hearing this?

Should I loosen the belt a bit, or do you think its something else?
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MorbidBBQ

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2017, 06:53:02 PM »

It sounds like what the user's manual describes as "ratcheting"; which would seem to indicate I need to tighten the belt.

Lack of belt tension can lead to “ratcheting”. The teeth of the belt slide over the teeth of the rear sprocket. This causes an unpleasant sound; the ratcheting can also cause damage to the carbon tensile cords. If ratcheting has occurred you should replace the belt before the next time you ride.
Too much tension can increase the wear of your drive system and the system can drag.
The tension is checked by using a Tension Tester.  The Tension Tester has a plastic measurement arm, located in a slot. Along this slot there is a measuring scale.
The point of intersection of the measurement arm and the measuring scale shows the tension of the belt. There is a button (clicking pad) on the upper side of the Tension Tester, where you can secure your finger with a rubber band holder. A spring is located underneath this clicking pad. If a certain pressure is applied to the spring, it makes a clicking sound.

General Maintenance
1.  Remove the key from the key switch.
2.  Press the Tension Tester steadily to the middle of the upper side of the belt. The “lip” will lead the tester on to the belt.
3.  Slowly increase the pressure on the tester, until you hear a clicking sound. Do not increase the pressure after the tester has clicked.
4.  Remove the tester carefully from the belt. Avoid rough movements of the tester, as this would change the results of the measurement. The measurement should be in the range of 20-30 kg.

Drive Belt Adjustment Procedure
1.  Remove key from the key switch.
2.  Loosen the rear axle nut (C).
3.  Loosen left and right (A) jam nuts (13mm) in order to make adjustments.
4.  Turn adjustment bolt (B) to adjust belt tension.
5.  Tighten left and right jam nuts (A) to secure the belt.
6.  Tighten the rear axle nut (C).
7.  Test ride the motorcycle.
8.  Recheck the belt for proper adjustment after the test ride and readjust, if necessary
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MrDude_1

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2017, 07:03:10 PM »

Look at the teeth on both pulleys. If there is no abnormal wear, they wont be the problem.
Look at the teeth on the belt, all the way around. If there is one section where its rounded shorter on a couple teeth, that can lever up and start a slip. Replace the belt if you find this.

If the teeth  look fine, the belt tracks on the pulleys fully and its ratcheting, the only other explanation is that you're measuring belt tension incorrectly and it is too loose.
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NEW2elec

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2017, 07:24:35 PM »

+1 to MrDude
Only other thing to check, if you can lift the back wheel, is the alignment of the belt.  Make sure it keeps the tiny space between the belt and the sprocket lip.
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MorbidBBQ

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2017, 08:12:44 PM »

Should there be a notable difference in belt tension between the following scenarios:
A) Zero standing straight up being held by handlebars.
B) Zero on kickstand.
C) Zero with 200lb rider weight on seat.
D) Zero on center stand with rear wheel suspended in air.

I tried to measure the belt tension with me on it too...but I need to recruit my girlfriend to help me out with that.  I haven't put it on the stand yet either.
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JaimeC

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2017, 09:48:08 PM »

Since the center of the drive pulley lines up with the center of the swingarm pivot there shouldn't be any difference between straight-up laden and straight up unladen (unlike every other belt or chain driven bike where the two do NOT line up).  I omit "on the sidestand" since I've noticed from checking the seat bolts that some torsional distortion occurs on the frame if it is leaning over on the sidestand.

I do prefer checking the belt tension with the rear wheel off the ground, though, so that it is free to move.  I've seen some here say that shouldn't make a difference but I remain skeptical.  $30 track stand from Harbor Freight is more than enough to perform this duty.
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Electric Terry

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2017, 11:02:22 PM »

I'm not sure how many miles are on it but it is time to change the belt.  Although it may look like all the teeth are there, if you take the belt off and run your fingers down the belt you will see some that fold over.  This is why your belt is skipping.

Unfortunately all it takes is one spin up in the air and landing, even on a brand new belt, and the teeth will break, allowing it to slip when you accelerate and the front sprocket hits that spot.  And each time you hear it spin up, more and more teeth get broken until eventually the belt will snap.

If you're going to order a belt, order 2 or 3.  It's something easy to fix, but impossible if you don't have it there.
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MrDude_1

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2017, 11:12:23 PM »

I do prefer checking the belt tension with the rear wheel off the ground, though, so that it is free to move.  I've seen some here say that shouldn't make a difference but I remain skeptical.  $30 track stand from Harbor Freight is more than enough to perform this duty.

Another fun thing.. since its impossible for the pulley to be perfectly centered on the wheel, and since the front pulley may be slightly off,  spinning the wheel may change tension a bit too...

I'm not sure how many miles are on it but it is time to change the belt.  Although it may look like all the teeth are there, if you take the belt off and run your fingers down the belt you will see some that fold over.  This is why your belt is skipping.

Unfortunately all it takes is one spin up in the air and landing, even on a brand new belt, and the teeth will break, allowing it to slip when you accelerate and the front sprocket hits that spot.  And each time you hear it spin up, more and more teeth get broken until eventually the belt will snap.

If you're going to order a belt, order 2 or 3.  It's something easy to fix, but impossible if you don't have it there.

by fold over, do you mean that small tear on the base of a tooth so it bends back?
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Electric Terry

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2017, 11:20:25 PM »

by fold over, do you mean that small tear on the base of a tooth so it bends back?

Exactly!  If there are about 4 or more teeth in a row that do this, when the pulley hits this point and you are at full throttle, the belt will start slipping
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ESokoloff

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2017, 10:00:28 AM »

When I accelerate hard (apply more torque), my belt skips.  I checked the tension, and see its 30kg (the top end of the spec).
.............................

Should I loosen the belt a bit, or do you think its something else?

I have a 2016 DSR & I've found that the belt tension varies approx 10kg depending on the position of the rear wheel.

The rear sprocket is attached to the wheel via 4 screws/bolts.
When I check the belt adjustment, I rotate the wheel so two of these screws are parallel with the motor & wheel sprocket & check the belt tension. I then rotate the wheel 90° & check.
I found that the tension is the same at 2 locations that are 180° apart & the tightest/loosest  at the other locations. 

I recommend everyone check their belt tension initially at 8 positions (45° apart) to determine what if any position based belt tension discrepancies exist.

I performed a run out check (parallel to the belt) of the rear sprocket but used the lip/edge on the left of the sprocket so it may not be accurate.
I found that maximum runout was .0012".
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MostlyBonkers

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 05:12:56 PM »

My last belt started ratcheting after only 10,000 miles.  I know what started it, dropping off a kerb far too enthusiastically... I heard the dreaded ratcheting and from that point onwards it just got worse and worse.

As Terry described, I must have damaged a few teeth in a row.  I inspected the belt and it looked fine. The tension was fine too.  However, I didn't check if any of the teeth were loose and flappy. 

Me being me, I continued my commute for several weeks. I couldn't believe that my belt was failing so early in its life. They should do three times that distance! However, I do have to confess to doing at least half a dozen off-road rides where the belt got muddy. On one occasion I heard that terrible clunking noise you get when something gets stuck between the belt and the sprocket. I removed it immediately, but I fear some damage had already been done at that point.  It's hard to tell, unless you inspect each tooth like Terry mentions.

The ratcheting coming off the kerb didn't happen until weeks after my last off-road jaunt.  The vast majority of my riding is my commute.

Despite the ratcheting, I tried to make the belt last as long as I could.  Don't do that. I ended up riding Miss Daisy very gingerly in Eco mode for that last few hundred miles. It's no fun.

Eventually I got the belt replaced and I must admit, it took me a while to feel comfortable opening up the throttle.

My current belt has done around 6,000 trouble-free miles now. If anything, I think it's a little loose at the moment but I have no trouble with full throttle at any speed. I really should get it checked and adjusted at my local dealer. Yes, I'm too lazy to do it myself and I don't have to tools or a stand, nor the will to buy them... It's a little sad really because I used to love tinkering when I was younger.

Anyhow, the moral of my story is don't take your DS off-road if you want your belt to last. My first belt just failed completely after 1,500 miles. I put that down to a combination of off-road use and another kerb incident.  With both my previous belts, the real problems came to bear many days or weeks after the incidents that caused them.

I got my first belt replaced under warranty on the basis that they shouldn't just snap and try and kill you regardless. I coughed for the second, because I had more use from it and I was partially to blame.  The sad fact is that I don't take my DS off-road anymore. I'd love to because it's just so much fun, but I also rely on it to get to work and I don't like spending £220 to get a new belt fitted.  I also want to see how long this one lasts.

Anyhow, I hope that was useful or of some interest.
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Shadow

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2017, 02:53:26 AM »

Just riding a Zero to the moto dealer is to me more time and effort than putting the bike on a stand and replacing/adjusting the belt. It's not complicated and if so inclined to do this i.e. not trying to get the procedure covered under warranty then I'd say it's quite sensible to do it oneself.
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MrDude_1

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Re: Belt Skipping under accelleration when tension = 30
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2018, 09:58:48 AM »

Just riding a Zero to the moto dealer is to me more time and effort than putting the bike on a stand and replacing/adjusting the belt. It's not complicated and if so inclined to do this i.e. not trying to get the procedure covered under warranty then I'd say it's quite sensible to do it oneself.

Agreed. My nearest dealer is 200+ miles away. Not to mention some of us trust ourselves more than any dealer...
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