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[gasorelectric]

Wait until a larger (honda, KTM, yamaha) comes out with a quality electric bike. From everything I've read it's just around the corner. If you do buy one, get a very extended warranty because from what I know about the Zero you will have issues issues issues. I had one on order and it was pushed out 10 months before I finally gave up. There was always an excuse why it couldn't ship. Then if that's not bad enough, my friend who has an off-road bike has had nothing but problems. This includes a new recall on the throttle that almost killed him. There have been more than a dozen issues with the bike from connectors going bad to blown forks several times over, chain stretch like a rubber band, cheap parts and NO repair stations anywhere. How do they expect to fix these issues when they go wrong and it seems like a lot will go wrong with the S which is why it's been delayed so long. The company has changed the specs several times over from 65 miles per hour to 50 miles per hour and they said the motor was overheating and blowing up! I think the company out right lies to customers regarding specs and miles you can travel on a charge. I wouldn't feel safe dodging a NY taxi and having the motor lock up crossing an intersection. I believe most of those who give props to the bike are representatives for th ecompany so they have something to gain by saying good things but if you do your research you won't find many happy regular owners. The 10k will go a long way with a gas powered bike far better with a much better warranty and service record IMO. I'm for electric bikes but until the big guys get involved the the current electric bike makers are sellinig a dream rather than a quality product. My bet is as soon as the big guys produce something worth while these small electric makers will go the way of Vetrix. 

[Brammofan]

I'm for electric bikes but until the big guys get involved the the current electric bike makers are sellinig a dream rather than a quality product. My bet is as soon as the big guys produce something worth while these small electric makers will go the way of Vetrix.

By "go the way of Vectrix" do you mean get bought up by a motorcycle company in the UK?

You seem awfully pro-big-manufacturer... is that you, Takeo Fukui?

[skadamo]

I split this thread form the original thead because it was off topic. Feel free to change the subject of the post.

Wait until a larger (honda, KTM, yamaha) comes out with a quality electric bike. From everything I've read it's just around the corner.

KTM's electric was due in 2010 but we have not seen any news on it lately. EICMA came and went so I doubt we will see it until 2011. Honda has a scooter and a cub prototype. If you have a link to something that says any of those 3 brands will have a bike in 2010 please post it.

If you do buy one, get a very extended warranty because from what I know about the Zero you will have issues issues issues. I had one on order and it was pushed out 10 months before I finally gave up. There was always an excuse why it couldn't ship.

What bike did you have on order?

Then if that's not bad enough, my friend who has an off-road bike has had nothing but problems. This includes a new recall on the throttle that almost killed him. There have been more than a dozen issues with the bike from connectors going bad to blown forks several times over, chain stretch like a rubber band, cheap parts and NO repair stations anywhere.

Were all these issues with your friends bike? Can you get him on the forum to post some pics and information on the failures? Did the throttle issue literally almost kill him or did it just have the potential to kill him?

I would like to learn more about how Zero plans to fix the bikes that break. I think I read they will be shipped to Zero HQ? Are the reps trained in repairs?

How do they expect to fix these issues when they go wrong and it seems like a lot will go wrong with the S which is why it's been delayed so long. The company has changed the specs several times over from 65 miles per hour to 50 miles per hour and they said the motor was overheating and blowing up!

The S has not shipped to customers yet. It is unfortunate the specs have changed, especially the weight increase but they did not sell any yet so it is hard to argue they mislead anyone.

I think the company out right lies to customers regarding specs and miles you can travel on a charge.

I would like to see some facts to prove this claim.

I wouldn't feel safe dodging a NY taxi and having the motor lock up crossing an intersection. I believe most of those who give props to the bike are representatives for th ecompany so they have something to gain by saying good things but if you do your research you won't find many happy regular owners.

Please post the links to the regular customer who are unhappy. How are you differentiating regular vs representatives?

The 10k will go a long way with a gas powered bike far better with a much better warranty and service record IMO.

Electric motorcycles are a different genre of motorcycle. People looking for a sport bike won't buy a cruiser. People looking for a supermoto won't buy a BMW 1200GS. Electric motorcycles have benefits gas powered can't provide. Not all of us like to change oil, clean and oil air filters, rebuild top ends, etc.

I'm for electric bikes but until the big guys get involved the the current electric bike makers are sellinig a dream rather than a quality product. My bet is as soon as the big guys produce something worth while these small electric makers will go the way of Vetrix.  

Don't hold your breath on the big guys showing up too soon. They will show up when the market builds up. For the people who want electric now there are some good choices. That is what we discuss here. I'm sure the big guys entry into the market will thin the herd but I would be surprised if we don't see a new dominate brand join the current leaders. The "big guys" may even buy a company like Zero if Neal is willing to sell. Time will tell.

[picasso]

Chain stretch was with the 2008 bikes. The 2009 has a much larger chain. But on the forks blowing out part I'm with you on that. Im going to guess your friend has the RST shocks, and I dont care for those myself. No matter who makes the bikes all of them will have their own issues.

[IamTJ]

KTM announced 2010 and then pushed it out (the "big guys" push back product roll-outs too).......if you take a look at many companies you would consider "Big Guys" they all have issues with NEW PRODUCT LAUNCHES.  Kawasaki's first few years of Jet Ski, those were crude prototypes vs. the quality boats they build today.  Honda, Yamaha etc etc.  iPhone, Windows Vista, GM, Toyota, Marcedes etc etc all have had recalls and they still do today!!  With the $ millions $ the "big guys" have, they still cannot deliver a quality electric vehicle....

Mini Cooper launched the Lithium ion mini with 500 limited leases.  Suprise suprise, they are having big issues....

Come on guys.....what is your point in posting all the negativity?  Zero is all of about 30 employees doing something no one else is doing or has done....its a huge undertaking and things will go wrong.  It is through a network of GOOD people and GOOD feedback that Zero will solve the minor issues and get better and better at what they are doing.  Its called evolution if anyone has heard of that before?

My two cents

BTW - all those issues posted by gasorelectric sounds like the 2008 Zero X which was the very first bike Zero delivered to customers.  A year later they have 4 different bikes to choose from.  Where will Zero be in another 2 yrs?  A lot better is my guess.  And when has Zero ever refused to fix a faulty part? 

They may not be perfect but they stand  behind their faulty parts!

[skadamo]

My brother rides a Suzuki V-Strom 1000 that has never run right due to poor fuel injection. My Suzuki DRZ drive shaft seal leaks oil if too much dirt (imagine that) builds up behind the drive sprocket. Don't think they ever remedied that, it's "acceptable". Coolant impeller is also prone to failure.

And when has Zero ever refused to fix a faulty part? 

They may not be perfect but they stand  behind their faulty parts!

In the end this is what people want to hear. For being engineered one off from the ground up Zero's seem to have very few issues. Zero is obviously knocking issues out very quickly.

As more owners show up I think more fact based insight will be posted. Picasso is an owner and he documented his gripes well. I think new models address them.

[gasorelectric]

By "go the way of Vectrix" do you mean get bought up by a motorcycle company in the UK?

You say that like it was a good thing? Do you thing Vetrix made out by being bought at pennies on the dollar. Do you think the investers made anything. Heck no, they lost their shirts on this investment. Being "bought out" is only good when the comany is turning a profit and all the investors capitalize on the sale. This was not the case with Vetrix. Everyone lost a lot of money in this deal. The only ones who "made out" were the few employees getting over paid compenstation for pitching a dream...

[Brammofan]

By "go the way of Vectrix" do you mean get bought up by a motorcycle company in the UK?

You say that like it was a good thing? Do you thing Vetrix made out by being bought at pennies on the dollar. Do you think the investers made anything. Heck no, they lost their shirts on this investment. Being "bought out" is only good when the comany is turning a profit and all the investors capitalize on the sale. This was not the case with Vetrix. Everyone lost a lot of money in this deal. The only ones who "made out" were the few employees getting over paid compenstation for pitching a dream...

Yeah, you're right about that.  I basically made my comment because it seemed like you might not know about the Vectrix deal.  I'm pretty sure that someone else will be buying the US operations, too.
Seems like you are aware of it after all.  My apologies for the unfair assumption, Takeo.   

[gasorelectric]

What bike did you have on order?

Zero S

Were all these issues with your friends bike? Can you get him on the forum to post some pics and information on the failures? Did the throttle issue literally almost kill him or did it just have the potential to kill him?

I do all of the work on his bike cause he's not very good with a wrench and I've probably put more miles on it then him so I feel pretty good about knowing what I'm talking about.
The throttle got stuck wide open when he turned it on and sent the bike sailing into his garage wall. Can you imagine what would have happened if a kid were standing in front or in any other type of location with traffic or other...Here's a list of items: Kill switch (2 times) on the second one the connectors were the wrong ones (make that 3 times). New chain due to stretch in less than 200 miles (this is the 09 bike not the 08) fyi the chain is still the small 420 non 0-ring cheapest brand out there. Swing arm bolt backed out several times (I hear there was a recall on these as well). The front tire is always getting out of true. Blown front forks 3 times (these are the upgraged forks). Grips must have cost all of $1 last time I saw cheap grips like these were on my 8 year olds huffy. (they sent him two new throttles before they figured out it was a recall item on the control board or something like that rather than the throttle). Seat is as hard as a board - the one good thing is it will never rip). The motor gets super super hot where you can't even touch it if you go up a steep hill a few times. The rep said if you do it too many times the motor wil burn up, they said the fix was to dump some water on it if it gets too hot. Okay, we should cary an extra few gallons of water with us now...the new plastic fairing is like potato peeler on your knees (you need to ride one and put your leg into the turn to know what I mean). Swing arm makes the chain sound super load due to the chain guide an drollor or lack there of. The battery has had a lot off charging issues with blinking lights that you can't figure out so you have to call in to have them tell you what's going on. Forget about the specs being correct. We were told you could go 40 mile in a best case scenario. I think best case was with my kid all of 80 lbs in easy mode on slow flat trails and we ended up at 28 miles. Try a tow rope with the kid just learing how to ridea bike. Not very fun. The specs say 150lbs. Add another 15lbs then you are correct. Don't these guys weigh or test the bikes capabilities of the bike before their markting publishes. It's been said in someone elese spost but every bold is of a different size, there is no flow to the build quality. The foot pegs are wide but made of cheap material and wear quickly. No kickstand (and they don't sell an option) - you have to make a home-made set up or lean it on something. Handle bars need risers. Brakes are mountain bike brakes that overheat on any large downhill and if you hit somethign big they will get bent very easily. They need to put real MC wheels, tires and brakes on it (the new MX has a better front rim and tyre but the brakes are still mountain bike)

I would like to learn more about how Zero plans to fix the bikes that break. I think I read they will be shipped to Zero HQ? Are the reps trained in repairs?

The S has not shipped to customers yet. It is unfortunate the specs have changed, especially the weight increase but they did not sell any yet so it is hard to argue they mislead anyone.
 

If you put a bike on order based on specs then they change the specs because they were just plane wrong or they intentially mislead the public so they could say their product is better than the competitors then that's bogus. They reason they gave me the weight and speed changed is they did some upgrading the to battery case. Well the battery 4kw stayed the same and when I pressed them they said they moved from a plastic battery casing to a metal one. You don't gain 50lbs and lose a top speed of 65 to 50 because of this. They didn't properly test the bikes capabilities or even put it on a scale IMO before they went to print. When I asked a different rep, I got a different answer about the changes and delays. This time it was due to production issues where they couldn't produce enough parts. I later found out they had only shipped less than 20 bikes. I thought they were a pretty big company until I took a tour while i was out there, I spoke to one of the bike builders and they said they have only made a total of 300 bikes and 90% of those were the off-road bikes. This is when I cancelled my order after seeing and getting the feeling they would not be around for long.

I would like to see some facts to prove this claim..

Sounds like you work for the company? I have found reading many of the electric forums most of the people are either blinded by the dream of what electric bikes can be in the future so they are willing to make a lot of excuses for the many many short comings they have now OR they are somehow affiliated with working for the company as a rep so it is their best interest to hyp the bike and defend them. Reality is reality though, they are just not there yet. I agree, you do have to start somewhere though. But for 10k....ouch.

Please post the links to the regular customer who are unhappy. How are you differentiating regular vs representatives?

Regualr has no affiliation with the company or industry. Rep is someone who sells the bikes or works for an electric bike maker in some form. Brammo is selling through Best Buy but Zero has reps all around the country working at other jobs doing this on the side (at least this is what my rep told me and from what I've read).

[gogreenmoto]

gasorelectric,

If you don't like what they are selling, don't buy one. Move on.

Those guys make those things from the ground up. You've got to start somewhere. Have you ever driven a GM? Like those things are perfect ... and they have been in production for quite a long while. The G6, for example has the turning radius of a semi. Ford issues recalls all the time. Most major manufacturers make mistakes, but they try to fix them, and move forward. You expect perfection from something brand new? Why don't you get in line for a Mission ... oh wait, those have problems too.

You know, when there is a car accident, the guy that is the most angry, and yelling and screaming that it is the other person's fault, is generally the one that caused the accident. Flying off the handle with long drawn out ranks loose credibility. You just sound angry and defensive.

By no means am I saying that Zero is perfect. I think that everyone has a lot to learn in this space. Both Zero and Brammo (I use these two, because they seem to have the biggest marketing efforts, but I know they're not the only ones) are doing a great job getting attention on electric bikes and the industry, and I think that they're making progress, both for themselves (and each other) and everyone else to come in the future. 

[Brammofan]

Just wanted to mention that gasorelectric attributed all those comments to me (well, he almost did. I'm "Brammofan" not "bramofan") and they were actually made by skadamo.

That's s-k-a-d-a-m-o. 

[skadamo]

Thanks for the more detailed list. It sounds like Zero is working on some of the issues already.

Is your friend riding his X on trails or a track?

Saying Zero mislead anyone is still a big stretch.

Still confused why you are upset when you never bought the bike. Has Zero been taking care of your friend?

No I don't work for Zero but I'll admit I want them to succeed. I'll be standing up for any brand or member getting bashed without details to back it up.
 

[picasso]

I have never heard about the upgraded white brothers fork failing, thanks for the heads up I guess I won't upgrade to it. As for the motor overheating.....I don't have that problem. I can stay full throttle for as long as the battery will let me. I have the MARS motor, it has much more mass for dealing with the heat.

And I two have been sent the wrong parts by zero a few times. Zero has always corrected but it is a little sad to see these guys dont know whats parts are on what bikes it seems. As for the chain, I have well into 800 miles on mine now, are you sure you getting the motor nice and locked down and its not moving on you? You can always replace the chain your self and please post any upgrades you might find to the forum. It's about time for me to replace my chain, my front sprocket is about due for me to replace as well.

As Zero gets bigger and can afford to make some custom specialty parts I see them offering upgrades for past owners. One of them I hope to see are brake upgrades. I to have been vary unhappy with the brakes.

[zeromike]

Here is an unbiased test ride.
Feel free to contact Wayne, hes a great guy.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27546