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[NEW2elec]

Ok I'll chime in here.  Mr Dude I've read most if not all your posts and I highly respect your riding time and skill as well as your overall knowledge of the workings of motorcycles in general and science of speed.  I'm new to motorcycles and all my road miles have been on my Zero DS.  I agree with you that nothing compares to a liter plus sport bike when it comes to all aspects of speed and performance.  If you want to blow past everything on the road that's the easiest and cheapest way to get it done.  I love my Zero and I believe it does what most people want to do speed wise, and what what everyone should do law wise.  The only other thing that I see time and time again is like Eolas said he leaves the Ice bike at home because "overall" the Zero is a better ride and experience.  Maybe they will get one fast enough to compete in a few years or it may take longer.  I think you'd enjoy the bike but your logical mind won't accept the trade offs which is fine.  I don't think a different opinion is "trolling" it's good to challenge all ideas that's what makes them stronger or dead.
Where do I leave my two pennies?

[Doug S]

Look....the SR isn't designed as a high-performance sportbike. It's supposed to be a general-purpose bike that serves as many riders as possible. Zero isn't big enough to offer niche machines like that.

If you want super high performance in an electric, that's available. Look up the Lightning LS-218. Yes, it's expensive. But it is, as far as I'm aware, the quickest and fastest sportbike you can buy, and it happens to be electric.

So can we stop trying to compare a general-purpose bike to an all-out performance bike? They're apples and oranges, because that's how they're designed.

In my mind, the remarkable thing about the Zero is how well it fulfills its role as a highly functional general-purpose motorcycle, and gives an astonishing amount of fun at the same time, in large part based on its instantaneous throttle response and an immense amount of torque. Compared to other general-purpose bikes, that is.

[MrDude_1]

So can we stop trying to compare a general-purpose bike to an all-out performance bike?

That's all I'm asking for too!

[NoiseBoy]

I was caught out in the same way as MrDude.  There is an awful lot of hyperbole about the mind melting acceleration of the SR.  So i expected a lot and was disappointed when I got mine.  Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love riding my SR and wouldn't go back to an ICE but comparing the acceleration to a litre bike is ridiculous and should be discouraged because it gives false expectations.  The first time I opened up the SR it was great fun and i did it over and over.  The first time i really opened up a ZX-6R I had to slow down for the next 10 minutes until I stopped shaking from the adrenaline.  It's a different world.

Apparently a Lightning really does accelerate like a litre bike though. EV's are already at and beyond ICE performance if you can afford it.

[Doug S]

I think a lot of the "hyperbole", if there really is any, is a reaction to the common conception the EV world is fighting. Many people, if not most, still think EVs are toys. Tesla has gone a long way toward proving electric cars don't have to be glorified golf carts, but I think people still think "cheap Chinese scooter" when you mention electric motorcycles to them. Including most of us until we learned differently.

Again, for not being all-out sportbikes, it really is surprising how much performance these bikes give you. A really surprising amount, enough to put them way toward the top of the list for general-purpose bikes. The almost mind-reading responsiveness of the bikes only enhances the feeling.

So yeah, we probably tend to exaggerate a bit out of our own surprise and in order to stress that these are NOT cheap scooters. But nobody should be "caught out" by that sort of thing. Didn't you test ride the bikes before you bought them? If you didn't know exactly what you were getting before you made a purchase this major, you just didn't do your homework, and that's on you.

[MrDude_1]

I think a lot of the "hyperbole", if there really is any, is a reaction to the common conception the EV world is fighting. Many people, if not most, still think EVs are toys. Tesla has gone a long way toward proving electric cars don't have to be glorified golf carts, but I think people still think "cheap Chinese scooter" when you mention electric motorcycles to them. Including most of us until we learned differently.

Again, for not being all-out sportbikes, it really is surprising how much performance these bikes give you. A really surprising amount, enough to put them way toward the top of the list for general-purpose bikes. The almost mind-reading responsiveness of the bikes only enhances the feeling.

So yeah, we probably tend to exaggerate a bit out of our own surprise and in order to stress that these are NOT cheap scooters. But nobody should be "caught out" by that sort of thing. Didn't you test ride the bikes before you bought them? If you didn't know exactly what you were getting before you made a purchase this major, you just didn't do your homework, and that's on you.

So just like Honda forums think Hondas are the best, Yamaha forums think Yamaha is the best, and Harley forums think merchandising is the best, You think EVs are the best....   to the point you would mislead and lie about it?


You seem to forget that a huge portion of zeros customer base does not have a dealership within 100 miles of them. They cant easily go testride one... They're trusting what supposedly reputable sources online are saying.
Most people dont have any opinions of electric bikes. They are not even on their radar... However a bunch of people raving over the SRs acceleration will disappoint anyone looking for a motorcycle with high acceleration. You are setting up disappointment.
Now, if you mention it rips like a SV650 or whatever similar bike you like... thats fair.  But going overboard just because you like EVs is not an excuse.

[MostlyBonkers]

I was talking to a chap last night who owns a street triple. He's going to buy a ZZR 1400 next week. I asked him if he'd test ridden the ZZR and he said no. Then I asked if he was going to do a test ride and he said no. Apparently he's been reading up about the ZZR; reviews, forums and so on. He's read enough to satisfy himself that he doesn't need a test ride.  There are a lot more opportunities to test ride a ZZR than a Zero around here.  On this occasion, I didn't try and persuade him to take a test ride because I don't think he'll be disappointed.

It's a shame that there are at least a couple of people out there that have been disappointed a little with their SR.

I did have an opportunity to test ride a few different Zero's before I finally managed to buy one. I traded in a VFR 1200FD for mine. That was a genuinely fast bike and yet I'm very happy with my DS. I enjoyed pinning the throttle on the VFR and doing silly speeds when I felt it was safe for me and other road users.  It would have been nice to keep the bike, but I couldn't. I can honestly say I'm not missing it though.

I think it has to be the overall experience that makes people so happy with their Zeros. We know they aren't as quick as sports bikes, but the sensation of speed is still very impressive. I'm sure that's partly due to the upright riding style. I knew I was accelerating very quickly on my VFR but I didn't feel it as much in my body due to being more crouched.

I also feel that the acceleration is more useable and accessible on my DS. You don't have to think about what gear you're in and prepare for it, it's just there.

The effortless way a Zero takes off is a lot of fun, for me at least. It feels great. To do the same on an ICE bike requires a good deal more effort and noise.

I don't think anyone has intentionally tried to overstate the performance of their Zeros. A lot of it is down to the perception of a rider. It feels quick, so it must be.

I'm very happy with the way my DS handles. I know that it can't possibly handle as well as other bikes I've ridden, but I love the way the bike feels on the road.  Similar to the speed.

For me, the word that does the best job of summing it all up is fun. That's the overall experience. If you own an SR or DSR or FXS or FX, then there's that bit more fun over a DS or S. I have a DS and I'm not disappointed.

On one hand owners' perceptions seem to have given others the wrong perception and there lies the rub.

[quixotic]

I also feel that the acceleration is more useable and accessible on my DS. You don't have to think about what gear you're in and prepare for it, it's just there.

Amen.  That's where the "fun" quotient really rises to the fore.  I had a lot of fun riding my wife's Vespa 250 for the same reason (resulting in a machine that was just as fast as my ZZR 250, but more fun to ride).

[lolachampcar]

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1391932/

The neat thing about electric motors is they provide all their torque at low rpm then the torque falls off when you reach the battery's current limit. This is the opposite of ICE and provides you with a torque when you need it and most often use it on the street type experience.

BeVs are a long way from getting near the energy density of gas. Heck, you waste 80% of the gas and yet ICE are still bad fast. I'm finding I prefer BeV fun over ICE bad fast on the street for both bike and car (M5 gone for a Tesla and S1000RR replaced by an SR).

[Richard230]

Speaking of EV acceleration: Cycle World magazine reports, in their July issue, on page 8, that the Victory TT racer, which they plan to ride during the Pikes Peak race, was run at a drag strip and covered the quarter mile in 10 seconds at 140 mph-plus.  And that was using the IOM TT gearing. (The race bike has no transmission.)

[MrDude_1]

Speaking of EV acceleration: Cycle World magazine reports, in their July issue, on page 8, that the Victory TT racer, which they plan to ride during the Pikes Peak race, was run at a drag strip and covered the quarter mile in 10 seconds at 140 mph-plus.  And that was using the IOM TT gearing. (The race bike has no transmission.)

THAT would be on-par with a regular literbike.

[Killroy]

Speaking of EV acceleration: Cycle World magazine reports, in their July issue, on page 8, that the Victory TT racer, which they plan to ride during the Pikes Peak race, was run at a drag strip and covered the quarter mile in 10 seconds at 140 mph-plus.  And that was using the IOM TT gearing. (The race bike has no transmission.)

I wonder why Victory is racing when its production Empulse TT, has less power, heavier and less range for $6000 more than a Zero SR.  Are they planing on a upgrade?

[Richard230]

Speaking of EV acceleration: Cycle World magazine reports, in their July issue, on page 8, that the Victory TT racer, which they plan to ride during the Pikes Peak race, was run at a drag strip and covered the quarter mile in 10 seconds at 140 mph-plus.  And that was using the IOM TT gearing. (The race bike has no transmission.)

I wonder why Victory is racing when its production Empulse TT, has less power, heavier and less range for $6000 more than a Zero SR.  Are they planing on a upgrade?

I am not even sure that Victory is still selling the Victory (Empulse) TT.  My guess is that they will eventually come out with their own EV. I figure that the Pikes Peak run is strictly a PR move to test public reaction to a high-performance electric motorcycle. Could it be that they are waiting for H-D to make a move first? 

[protomech]

Speaking of EV acceleration: Cycle World magazine reports, in their July issue, on page 8, that the Victory TT racer, which they plan to ride during the Pikes Peak race, was run at a drag strip and covered the quarter mile in 10 seconds at 140 mph-plus.  And that was using the IOM TT gearing. (The race bike has no transmission.)

I wonder why Victory is racing when its production Empulse TT, has less power, heavier and less range for $6000 more than a Zero SR.  Are they planing on a upgrade?

2016 SR is $16000 now, though Zero has been running various promotions that cut $1000 off for the last few months. The 10% federal tax credit applies both to the Victory and to the Zero, making the effective prices $13.4k and $18k, excluding taxes and delivery.

[Richard230]

Speaking of the H-D EV plans, there is this report and speculation: 
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/13/production-harley-davidson-electric-motorcycle-5-years-report/