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[MostlyBonkers]

Edited, thanks Burton.

[Burton]

Edited, thanks Burton.

You are welcome sir. Might I also point out Manzanita also said "Rear ABS would have been nice in this situation..." when referring to locking up the rear in a corner ...

I am not sure he is against ABS and only started out with his previous stance when making his point.

[MostlyBonkers]

Edited again, this time to just reinforce the benefits of rider aids and not point any fingers. I did misinterpret a post or two there. Well moderated Burton, thanks again!

[Burton]

Edited again, this time to just reinforce the benefits of rider aids and not point any fingers. I did misinterpret a post or two there. Well moderated Burton, thanks again!

lol np ...

I find if something brings out emotion in me from a first reading because I know of a different "truth" then I tend to go back and re-read the content several times to make sure I understand what is being said before responding. And typically when I respond instead of attacking the ideas I often find myself asking questions of the other person to clarify their view in case they have thought of something I haven't yet.

Only after I think I know their view I open a dialog for discussion ... and by discussion I don't mean preaching. I mean asking if there is anything which might change the other persons perspective if I still think mine is accurate to the facts I have seen. If they say no and keep to their bias I might not even address their side of the argument as I know nothing will come from it less there is an audience which would benefit from seeing such an opposition.

[MostlyBonkers]

You're a gentleman Burton, thank you. I've copied your last post into my notes for my reference. Wise words put across in a kind manner.  They'll improve the quality of my posts in future. I do have a tendency to let emotions get the better of me at times, something the HR department at work are very aware of...

I'd like to see that post incorporated into a stickie. Despite this forum being one of the most civilised I've come across, I'm sure there are others that would benefit from reading your post. Do you know who administers it?

[Fivespeed302]

I am usually a ABS/traction control naysayer simply because it gives people a false sense of security.

I'm sorry but I have to call you out on your bullshit.  "False sense of security"  What a load.  I guess helmets, kevlar, gloves, and heavy boots also give false senses of security too?

A sense of security is purely subjective ... and thus you can't say something will or wont give someone a sense of security because you don't know what they are thinking.

I have personally heard stories from friends who went down telling me they felt like they were superman with all their gear and everything would be ok ... so they went faster.

Many things can bring someone a false sense of security ... not just gear or ABS. How could people otherwise push the limits of their abilities on the track without knowing if they go down they will likely not get hurt badly if wearing the proper gear for track racing?

+1. It's totally subjective.  I ride more conservatively when I am not wearing a leather jacket with hard parts and a good pair of gloves.  On the other hand, no amount of protection or ABS or traction control would give my mom any sense of security let alone a false sense of security.

I am going to assume Fivespeed's real objection is to the notion that because it might give someone a false sense of security it shouldn't be on the bike in the first place.

You nailed it.  Street riding isn't track riding.  You cannot predict when some old lady pulls out in front of you.  Or something flies out the back of a truck, or whatever random crap comes your way.  Or it's hot and sunny and a quick downburst happens at the same moment the light turns yellow - actually witnessed a bike skid and crash like that.  Sucks they didn't have ABS when the tires locked up.

[Kocho]

I am a bit hesitant throwing-in the below info, as I know next to nothing about racing, but seems to me that if back then Robert Dunlop had some sort of stability ("frontie") control on his bike, he would not have flipped over and ultimately died and caused serious injury to another rider in the process. The reason for the flip was likely the way his custom front brake operated, and despite his experience he did not have time to react properly to this situation....

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/robert-dunlop-died-after-modified-brake-accident-says-inquest-28536161.html

If you got Netflix, the movie "Road" with footage of that crash (and a few more crashes and a lot of racing) is available for streaming.