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[firepower]

Zero cooling could easily be improved. It is using passive heatsink. Think back to 486 and  Pentium CPU technology. Look how far heatsink technology had evolved for modern CPU. 
They should be using ducted force cooling. Faster bike goes more air it gets. They could also use heat pipes to transfer heat to more efficient heatsinks mounted in the air flow or sides of the bike.

[teddillard]

I recall that the reason that Brammo chose the Transmission is so they could gain some performance (with the same motor) by adding a transmission because you can put the motor into its power band whenever you want.

I "recall", um, and by that I mean have actual reference to discussions and quotes, that there was a serious problem with the original Empulse overheating, which was one of the reasons the bike was delayed.  At that point the possibilities came down to running a bigger motor, or working with a transmission, for the reasons you point out, Travis. 

I also "recall" that Bramsher said that they were going to opt for a transmission primarily because they wanted to give the rider a familiar experience, and felt that it would help transition customers to electric with the 6-speed.  This was all in the marketing info on the site and in interviews. 

Now, what you believe to be the rationale and reasoning behind those two points is up to you - whatever Brammo cares (or cared) to spin. 

Any claim to a significant advantage of a transmission is just silly at this point, considering the actual data we have.  Minor advantages or disadvantages?  Sure, haggle away on your personal preferences, but if it comes down to "does a bike need one to go fast?"  Clearly not.

...and do I think this will be the last word on this discussion?  Heavens, no. 

Now, what is going to be interesting is if Victory decides to either stick with the transmission in future models or dump it.  Guessing at what they're thinking, they have two bikes, the street bike and the race bike, one with, and one without a transmission.  It's easy enough to repackage the street bike and see how it does with their market, and in a short time offer a bike without a transmission.  In terms of Brammo's sales, however, that's a significant amount of market research already completed, and it's not a compelling conclusion.  In any case, it's going to get interesting. 

Add to that, Harley has been recruiting a few friends of mine pretty hard... 

[teddillard]

Zero cooling could easily be improved.

...minor point on this, because I've looked into it.  Yes, cooling could be improved, but you've got to consider the cost in both money and weight/complexity and ask if it's worth it.  I'd say, with simple passive air cooling and the performance they're getting, it's not worth it. 

[protomech]

Zero cooling could easily be improved.

...minor point on this, because I've looked into it.  Yes, cooling could be improved, but you've got to consider the cost in both money and weight/complexity and ask if it's worth it.  I'd say, with simple passive air cooling and the performance they're getting, it's not worth it.

For street applications with light sport riding, I think you are right. I suspect some of the problems with bikes overheating easily have been poorly calibrated temperature sensors. Numerous owners have observed the bike motor temperature display reading 15+ degrees higher than ambient when turning the bike on in the morning.

For heavier sport riding or track applications, they definitely need an enhanced cooling option, whether forced air, oil-filled motor, or pumping liquid through a radiator. Most owners perhaps wouldn't choose it - I wouldn't - but it'd be nice to see as a factory option.

[frodus]

Thatay be true Ted, I'm just going off what Brian has said on the brammo forums about it all and I don't recall him ever mentioning overheating. I'm glad I've not ever gotten any overheating issues at least!

Anyway, as I said, it mattered not to me in my decision making process. The quality, looks and charger swayed me.

[Doug S]

...with simple passive air cooling and the performance they're getting, it's not worth it.

I think Zero's a long ways from optimized regarding their air-cooling. If you look at air-cooled airplane engines, they all do a fair amount of work to get the airflow between the fins tweaked out -- cowling shape, air in/output ports, ducting and guides to deflect as much air as possible over the cylinder and head fins. I'm a member of a home-built airplane email chain and cooling airflow management is always a huge topic of conversation. Zero doesn't even bother installing a couple of plastic pieces to route air over their motor. I'd bet they could double or even triple the amount of cooling they get at speed with very little effort and insignificant aerodynamic drag.

[Ranga]

The side fairings are actually designed to guide airflow over the motor. And I do remember that way way back, the first version of the X had fan and duct system in the tail forcing air over the Agni motor.  it was removed for cost and weight.

[Ron Sindric]

BRAMMO  and  ZERO ( Agility SAietta ? ).  With two or three e-bikes in the market arena, the operant word is COMPETITION !  If there are choices for the end user, this will force the manufacturers to use their R&D and Engineering departments to produce products better ( and cheaper ) than the competition.  This is a WIN - WIN situation for those of us who ride e-bikes.

Does anybody have any experience with ZEV quasi-e-scooters ? 

http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/

OK, they look like scooters, but if you look at their specs they compare favorably with ZERO  and  BRAMMO BIKES.

For those who want highway "boats", there is always the HARLEY-STYLE e-bikes from BRUTUS

http://www.brutusmotorcycle.com[/center]]

[url]http://www.brutusmotorcycle.com[/url]

[/url]

Has anyone ridden ( or even seen for that matter ) one of these?

How long will it be before we have a universal battery system so a "fueling station" would just swap out batteries instead of recharging them.  How 'bout inductive pick-ups to provide bike power on INTERSTATES ( sort of like the DRAYSON B12/69 recharges ) to cut down on "refueling" stops ?

My personal e-bike e-DREAM ---> a battery system that allows me to go 500 miles at 70 mph between charges, and that recharges from 220 vDC in less than two hours.  Oh yeah, the bike with my Dream Battery would be hyper-reliable, hyper low maintenance, and cost less than $8000.00

[Erasmo]

It's lovely to see the difference between those two companies. On has a simple site with no-nonsene motorscooters and the other very slick marketing site promises to transform you in an ''Urban hero'' on your ''Road Warrior''.

This actually cracked me up:

The V9 is the only full-size, full-power motorcycle worthy of the name Brutus.

So the other motorcycles from your brand are their brand name not worthy?

I'm afraid battery swapping more serious than a FX wil never happen, an electric bike is built around the battery. And with DC charging you should be able to fill about any vehicle in 20-30 minutes regardless of battery size.

[Ron Sindric]

Quick Question,

Has anyone here in the States seen, got up-close-and-personal / touched a SAIETTA electric bike? 

http://saiettagroup.com/[/b]]http://saiettagroup.com/

Does anyone know of a SAIETTA dealer here in the US ?

[teddillard]

For heavier sport riding or track applications, they definitely need an enhanced cooling option, whether forced air, oil-filled motor, or pumping liquid through a radiator. Most owners perhaps wouldn't choose it - I wouldn't - but it'd be nice to see as a factory option.

You gotta do the math, and some serious testing to be able to conclude that.  Compare taking a stock motor, adding degrees of cooling (sorry, bad pun), seeing what the increased load capabilities are, compare that to simply running a larger motor, compare that to the weight, complexity and load additions of running cooling systems. 

You also have to understand where the heat comes from.  Hint: it' ain't the outside of the case, where your cooling fins are.

Ever since I learned about the losses you start getting when the motor gets hot, it's seemed like a mystery why motor designers don't build more cooling into them, but like everything else engineering, there are tradeoffs left and right.  No doubt the optimum is something like what we're seeing from Energica, with motor and controller active liquid cooling, but that adds complexity and expense.  I, for one, think Zero is spot-on with their solution. 

[teddillard]

That may be true Ted, I'm just going off what Brian has said on the brammo forums about it all and I don't recall him ever mentioning overheating. I'm glad I've not ever gotten any overheating issues at least

There was no public statement by Brammo or anyone from Brammo that overheating was a problem, but it is pretty common knowledge.  And please note, this was the earlier Empulse, not any model that you might have been able to buy. 

[Erasmo]

Quick Question,

Has anyone here in the States seen, got up-close-and-personal / touched a SAIETTA electric bike? 

http://saiettagroup.com/[/b]]http://saiettagroup.com/

Does anyone know of a SAIETTA dealer here in the US ?

Bikers POV made a few videos about it but he is based in the UK: