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[Richard230]

I heard on the news yesterday that gas stations in San Francisco are becoming hard to find.  Many of the corner lots that they sit on are being scarfed up by real estate developers who are turning the properties into condos and making tons of money in the very tight and expensive residential market in the city.  Plus, selling gas in CA is not very profitable any more, especially for the independent owners who own most of the gas stations in the state and can't subsidize their operations by selling and refining oil on the world market.  They make more money on their convenience stores than they do on gas, plus the regulatory environmental and safety laws are very burdensome and costly for a "mom and pop" operation.  This is leading to many stations in San Francisco closing, making gas harder to find and more expensive than elsewhere.  There may be a time that if you live in a city, and if you don't want to take public transportation, you may have to drive or ride an electric vehicle just to get around in an urban area. 

[Mike Werner]

Interesting. People will be forced eventually to go electric. Disappearing gas stations, and gas prices costing 1/2 mortgage.

[Richard230]

Interesting. People will be forced eventually to go electric. Disappearing gas stations, and gas prices costing 1/2 mortgage.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending upon your view (and choice of transportation), gas prices in the U.S. keep dropping, while legislators are afraid to increase our 20-year old gas tax (I think it is only 18 cents a gallon - add another 18 cents in California) that is no longer anywhere near enough to properly maintain our highways.  No doubt gas prices will rise again once fracking production finally falls, or war breaks out in enough of the usual oil-producing locations.  But the oil companies are doing an admirable job keeping prices down and consumption up.  Meanwhile IC drivers keep complaining that EV drivers are not paying their fair share of transportation costs when they don't buy gas.  Such is the problem with a major change in technology.  I bet the "get a horse" crowd in 1900 felt that way when they saw the sale of oats and pooper scoopers drop off as the automobile arrived on the scene. 

We live in interesting times.   

[kensiko]

Couldn't agree more I'm slowly looking for a Leaf since suddenly here in Quebec ChaDeMo chargers are popping up.

[Burton]

An EV yearly tax is coming, you can bet on it. The ass clowns will intentionally promote divisiveness between the gas / EV crowd  so they can bring in a "miles traveled per year" tax. If they were being "fair" it would be a "miles traveled per year per pound" tax so people with heavier vehicles paid more. You can bet your ass big rigs would be exempt or subsidized as everything we buy would go up in price.

The ass clowns will sell this as a great idea because gas prices will be lower as a result and people will eat it up like candy and beg for more taxes in the process.

This tax already exists in several forms around the developed world and the US tends to lag about 15 years behind the UK with it's oppressive policies.

[Richard230]

The only real problem that I see with replacing gas stations with electrical power recharging stations is the obvious one. There needs to be a system that will recharge vehicles in only about 5 minutes (long enough to get in and out of the adjacent convenience story) and enough outlets so that a vacant one will be available when the vehicle shows up. We are not anywhere near there right now. But then 10 years after the introduction of the IC vehicle gas was still being sold at hardware stores in 5 gallon cans. It will take a while, but one day recharging infrastructure the equal to the current (and slowly disappearing) gasoline fueling station system will be available - at least in countries with an electrical system that works 24/7.

Regarding road taxes, I do believe that EVs should pay a fair share of the cost of maintaining our roadways, however I will agree that oil companies will likely try to convince legislators to unfairly and overly tax EV owners so as to retard the introduction of the technology as long as they can.  But that will only be a delaying tactic until enough EVs are sold to swing the balance of "power" in the other direction.

[Mike Werner]

If I remember correctly, they got such a system in place in Israel, where they change your battery in a few minutes. But I also think they're stopping the system due to the number of different batteries available, making it too expensive and difficult to store and charge.

Guess it's the system with all the different charging systems. If only they could standardize on one...

[Burton]

I don't think the "oil companies" are behind the "state gas tax"  for one simple reason. It is the state's primary revenue ... I would argue the state benefits far more than the oil companies from a gas sales tax.

As far as a 5 minute charge how about a pull up, line up, unlock battery from bottom of "cartridge" and reload a new one? The obvious problem with this is OEM batteries of this nature are not standardized. Some company would have to seriously market a hot-swap-able battery form factor which wouldn't change much for companies to build around. I don't see it happening though as there is too much variance in design and technology changes really fast.

If it did happen I am sure some University would get funding to develop said universal standard and then companies who want to make the batteries would adhere to the size / interface restrictions and force their new upgraded technology into them.

[bigd]

Burton is correct "I don't think the "oil companies" are behind the "state gas tax" ". For example, Exon mobile makes 5cents per gallon of gas sold at the pump. The local, state, and Fed govt make about 35 to 50 cents per gallon (depending on the state).

[Richard230]

Well, we have to blame someone for the fouled up transportation system that we have.  Big Oil and Politicians are good enough for me.   

However, at the grass roots level, I sure don't get a " " when I show up with my Zero at the occasional gas station to ask if I could use one of their wall outlets for a while and offer to patronize their convenience store or pay for the power consumed, whichever they prefer.  Instead I have always gotten the ole "bums rush".  Go away and don't come back.  So I am sensing a little irritation regarding EVs here.   

[bigd]

Richard230 - thank makes no business sense  treating you like that. It is my understanding that they make much more profit at the  convenience store than the gas. That may be why they are disappearing 

[Justin Andrews]

Here in the UK petrol stations switch to "convenience shops that also sell petrol" quite a few years ago. Profit margins on fuel are slim, and stations sell snacks to survive.

Fuel is roughly 1.25p a liter here at the moment (approx $7.66 gallon), and way above what I consider to be the break even point for running an electric bike. As such I rarely bother to take out my Diversion more than once a month, mostly to stop it seizing up as fuel is just too expensive.

As such I've worked out that I save about £1500 a year in fuel (after taking electricity into account), with such savings possible, and fuel profit margins so slim already, its not surprising that some petrol station owners are starting to feel hostile towards EVs. 

[Richard230]

Richard230 - thank makes no business sense  treating you like that. It is my understanding that they make much more profit at the  convenience store than the gas. That may be why they are disappearing 

I can understand the concern by gas station "attendants" regarding the proliferation of EVs.  We are not talking about brain trusts here.  Most of these people are not well educated in science and business, are getting minimum wage, and many times English is not their first language.  I believe they are just worried about losing their jobs if the station goes out of business and think that might be a possibility if life becomes easier for EV owners who they feel will not be attracted to their facilities.  While you and I might understand that they should be more worried about the value of the land that the station sits on, I don't think that the attendants who operate these stations for absentee owners really understand the big picture.