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[Doug S]

Sorry, but I can't resist....why ask all those questions when it sounds like you're very set on what you want already? The consensus of the group (including us SR and DSR owners) seems to be that you'll regret not springing for the higher performance, but you don't like that advice. Which is fine; we all have our opinions, and you're not going to shake mine any more than it sounds like we're going to shake yours.

But are you just looking for confirmation that your choice is the best one? It doesn't sound to me like you're going to get that.

[Gandalf]

Sorry, but I can't resist....why ask all those questions when it sounds like you're very set on what you want already? The consensus of the group (including us SR and DSR owners) seems to be that you'll regret not springing for the higher performance, but you don't like that advice. Which is fine; we all have our opinions, and you're not going to shake mine any more than it sounds like we're going to shake yours.

But are you just looking for confirmation that your choice is the best one? It doesn't sound to me like you're going to get that.

Well the DS ZF13 and DSR are somewhat similar and I've heard lots of positive things already about the DSR. Plus there's some good DSR videos on Youtube that I've watched. I asked all the questions so I could get some direct overall feedback about the 2016 DS/DS ZF13 from an actual owner, without having to read hundreds of threads or digging around the internet. Plus I figured if there were any other folks interested in a DS/DS ZF13, this would be a good thread for them to reference.

Now that I know the DSR will be around for years to come (hopefully), I'll probably save up for that. The DSR and DS ZF13 both fit what I'm looking for.

If you're happy with your SR or S, that's great! Different strokes for different folks! I wouldn't mind pulling up to a stock SR in a stock DS ZF13 or DSR and seeing them pull away 1-2 seconds faster than me (in 0-60mph) and go 4-5mph more than me in max speed. If I wanted a racing bike, I'd buy a gas bike, although I know if modified, the SR can be a hell of a track bike.  I'm looking for good handling, stability, being able to sit more upright, never buy gas, be able to go on dirt, stone, highway, and back roads and use for daily commuting. I doubt I'd use more than 30-50% of the battery for most trips I'd make.

We all have our own tastes and opinions and I respect that. I'm just looking for feedback from actual owners so I can compare their personal experience with the 2016 DS ZF13 to that of the DSR which there's more info on.

[Kocho]

I am not sure where the idea comes that the DS/R is more stable or better handling than the S/R. What do you mean by that?

Yes, if some off-roading is in the picture, the DS/R will do that better. The '16 and '15 models are virtually identical, except for the very slightly bigger battery and the IPM motor. For your usage scenario neither would make a difference. So you can as '15 owners for their opinions too . Beyond that, it all comes down to cost - if you do not need the R power, save the money and get the DS version.

I test-rode the '16 DS and did not like the more upright riding position, hated the seat. I opted for the SR, which fits me better physically (I am 6'4"). The DS and S have exactly the same frames and seats and tanks, so once you are seated on them your legs are in exactly the same position on both. The difference is higher bars and taller suspension on the DS, plus bigger front wheel which makes the steering heavier at speed sooner and poorer handling on paved roads due to the mixed-use tires.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I am not sure where the idea comes that the DS/R is more stable or better handling than the S/R. What do you mean by that?

...

I test-rode the '16 DS and did not like the more upright riding position, hated the seat. I opted for the SR, which fits me better physically (I am 6'4"). The DS and S have exactly the same frames and seats and tanks, so once you are seated on them your legs are in exactly the same position on both. The difference is higher bars and taller suspension on the DS, plus bigger front wheel which makes the steering heavier at speed sooner and poorer handling on paved roads due to the mixed-use tires.

Just remember (you don't have to understand) that some riders have literally the opposite reactions to the S and DS handling that you do, and all will make sense. Different strokes for different folks. BTW the S and DS have literally the same seat, but they set up you up to sit on it in different ways.

One hidden factor is how many rough or less-maintained roads any particular rider encounters regularly. A DS or adventure-style ride eats these up effortlessly, while a sport rider has to work harder. Also, if you want a long distance ride, sport riding ergonomics work against you, whereas DS ergonomics work in your favor.

Obviously, you can change the DS tires. I intend to shift to 90/10 tire like Metzler Tourance Next. I'm not a fool - the 70/30 tires Zero puts on the DS/R are not what most riders need, but they're easier to ride after basic wear-in.

[Gandalf]

I hope most Zero bikes don't have this many problems after 3 years...yikes!

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I hope most Zero bikes don't have this many problems after 3 years...yikes!

The 2013 had poorer bearings, brakes, and suspension than 2015+ models. My 2013 DS did need bearing replacements and one BMS swap under warrantee but otherwise ran fine over 18000 miles. The 2015+ models have a lot of system reliability issues worked out and shouldn't age like that.

[Gandalf]

I hope most Zero bikes don't have this many problems after 3 years...yikes!

The 2013 had poorer bearings, brakes, and suspension than 2015+ models. My 2013 DS did need bearing replacements and one BMS swap under warrantee but otherwise ran fine over 18000 miles. The 2015+ models have a lot of system reliability issues worked out and shouldn't age like that.

That's good to hear! Thank you for all the information and feedback Brian, I appreciate it.

My only issue now is just waiting until I have the funds to afford a Zero. After taxes and fees, they cost as much as my used 4x4 V8 truck with 17,000 miles on it at the time of purchase. It's hard to justify spending the same money on something with 2 less wheels, can't drive in the snow, can't haul or tow, and can't drive as far as my truck via a long trip (bike would have to stop and charge for hours VS 5 min gas refill). However, I've been eyeing these Zeros up for about 2 years now and I'm dying to get one so it's really just a matter of time. I could sell my truck and buy the Zero quicker but the truth is, I need my truck for the winters around here (I'm in Pennsylvania).

[MrDude_1]

Also, if you want a long distance ride, sport riding ergonomics work against you, whereas DS ergonomics work in your favor.

I always laugh at the people that believe this...
sure. its more comfortable sitting.... if you didnt have the wind holding you up all day.
tilt into the wind properly, and you're more comfortable and you dont need a huge windscreen.

the SR does NOT have sport riding ergos.... the pegs are far too low. seat is not high enough. bars are too high and too far back.
its ergos are like a classic UJM.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Sigh, sure, okay. I still don't want to ride it and don't feel comfortable on it, and do feel comfortable on a DS.

You're not exactly making friends this way.

[MrDude_1]

Sigh, sure, okay. I still don't want to ride it and don't feel comfortable on it, and do feel comfortable on a DS.

You're not exactly making friends this way.

Hey, there are people that feel more comfortable with cruisers too.
If you stated it as a personal preference the first time, instead of a fact... you wouldnt be as offended when someone had a slightly different opinion.
How you accept a conflicting opinion is your choice, I cant influence that. Honestly with all your complaining about it lately, I just think you're easily butthurt everytime someone disagrees with you.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Sigh, sure, okay. I still don't want to ride it and don't feel comfortable on it, and do feel comfortable on a DS.

You're not exactly making friends this way.

Hey, there are people that feel more comfortable with cruisers too.
If you stated it as a personal preference the first time, instead of a fact... you wouldnt be as offended when someone had a slightly different opinion.
How you accept a conflicting opinion is your choice, I cant influence that. Honestly with all your complaining about it lately, I just think you're easily butthurt everytime someone disagrees with you.

You are projecting that in order to argue. I literally started my post asking you to understand that some people feel differently about it than you. I can't fix every sentence all the time so that it's always hedged; that's technical writing.

FYI everything is an opinion when stated on a forum thread. Even if Zero weighs in, it's still an assessment from a point of view. Assembling the wiki has to be done with that in mind.

Whatever you think you're doing right here, it's not winning me over.

[Rewstad]

I have a 2016 DS 9.8. I have about 1200 miles on it and love it so far. I absolutely think I made the right decision as far as model and battery size. My commute is 50 miles round trip with a mix of freeway and city driving. If I drive very easy I get home with about 20%. If I am hammering it, I have come home with as little as 5%. I also have a free optio. To charge at work if I think I may have to run an errand after work.

I chose the DS over the S due to the riding position. I was happy on the S, but happier on the DS. Forget what the range difference on paper since this varies greatly on the rider. At first I wanted to get the larger battery then realized I would be paying a premium for "just in case." I financed the bike so for me another 3k on the loan would have been 60 more dollars per month. That is all of my realized savings from switching to electric. Having the lighter battery also means the motorcycle is about a second faster from 0-60. I also think the bike is more nimble with the lighter weight especially since the power tank would have raised the center of gravity.

Ultimately, you have to find what works for you.