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Author Topic: Motorcycle reliability  (Read 696 times)

Richard230

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Motorcycle reliability
« on: May 10, 2013, 08:53:21 PM »

I know that some EV owners have had reliability issues with their bikes, but I think you will agree that is something that logically might happen when the vehicle is designed and manufactured by a small start-up that doesn't have a lot of experience manufacturing vehicles and is working with new state-of-the-art technology.  But, to put things into perspective, some large manufactures, such as BMW, have a lot more problems than any that we have heard about here.  (I mention BMW because I frequent some websites devoted to their motorcycles and have owned 8 of their vehicles over the years.)

BMW has been making high-priced motorcycles since 1923 and with all of those years worth of design and manufacturing experience that should logically result in a vehicle that is pretty reliable.  But hardly a day goes by when I don't hear relatively new owners complaining about failed wheel bearings, failed steering bearings, defunct alternators and voltage regulators, bikes that won't start when hot, bikes that won't start when cold, bikes that stall on the highway, wheel axle recalls, brake disc bolt recalls, fuel pump failures, bikes that won't shut off when removing the ignition key, fuel tanks cracking, fuel gauges not working, chains prematurely wearing out, water pumps leaking, coolant hoses falling off - and on and on.  All this on new bikes that are still under warranty.  Some people have never had a reliability problem, but other people have bikes that have suffered many of these issues. 

All of which leads me to believe that the real problem with motorcycles (of any type) can be found mostly in either the assembly process or issues with the components provided by outside suppliers.  If the design was at fault, then logically all of the vehicles would suffer the same problems.  But when a relatively small percentage suffer particular issues then it sounds to me like what manufacturers need to do is to not rush assembly to such an extent that proper construction is compromised and to provide increased quality control of both supplier components and of the finish product.  It seems to me that this would be the best way of preventing, or at least reducing, expensive and time-consuming warranty problems.  That would not only make for happy customers and the brand's retailers, but also would establish a reputation for a quality product that would justify a premium price.

In the case of BMW, they have apparently established their reputation to an extent that they can afford to spit out motorcycles of a build quality that does not match their premium price.  Consumer Reports performed a motorcycle owners survey last month that claimed that something like 76% of all BMW motorcycle owners had experienced reliability problems with their new vehicles.  But oddly, BMW owners were the most likely to say that they would buy another BMW motorcycle in the future.  Go figure.   ::)

However, I think EV manufacturers can't get away with the sort of marketing plan that can accept a substantial number of warranty claims.  They really have to be step up to the plate and take extraordinary steps to make sure that their product leaves the factory as close to 100% perfect as humanly possible.  And when there is a reliability issue, they have to have the staff, parts and procedures required to resolve the problem much faster than an established IC manufacturer can get away with.

So goes my thoughts today that are the result of hearing about more reliability problems being discussed on BMW motorcycle forums.   :(
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

BSDThw

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Re: Motorcycle reliability
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2013, 11:10:51 PM »

I see the problem for Zero that most reliability issues belong to parts they don't built self. If there is a Sevcon SW recall, an encoder problem (2012 motor was external supplied), a brake light switch, Throttle problems. For example, I had no problem with our glitch, so even field testing will not spot all faults.

I agree if you have an issue you will be angry - pis...! But as I can see; a small company like Zero has managed all problems well.

I think other producer like BMW have lot of pressure by competitors. But if we are honest Zero has no real competitor certainly Brammo will become one. But at the moment I can not buy one in Europe.

For this position Zero still work hard end has gained a super level and technology.
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Air Drag Sucks - 2012 Zero DS ZF9 - 2013 Zero FX ZF5.7

BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Motorcycle reliability
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2013, 11:38:49 PM »

I have not had a problem with my Zero DS, but can understand the frustration one would feel with the problems reported here on the forums. The fact is that learning to build complex yet reliable products takes time and experience and we're all early adopters who will have to cope with some bumps.

I also work at a startup and know the feeling on the other side where you have a hot product and customers encounter issues that you want to understand and fix, and even in software it's difficult to truly reach out and get that lesson delivered quickly and shared to other customers. A yearly-release new-generation vehicle startup has to be even more complicated to get right.

Certainly, it's a little less re-assuring that I can't take my Zero in to any old mechanic to have her looked at. I do have a dealer nearby on the West Coast, and a spare (reliable!) motorcycle but I'm sure not everyone feels so assured.


EDIT: All of this is to say that I'm committed to this bike as a long-term commuter investment, and some teething issues are understandable.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 11:42:11 PM by BrianTRice »
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Current: 2020 DSR, 2012 Suzuki V-Strom
Former: 2016 DSR, 2013 DS

Noleander

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Re: Motorcycle reliability
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2013, 08:30:13 AM »

I own a converted electric motorcycle and have had problems only with controllers. I knew a guy with a Brammo Enteria and it had several problems, at least two of which caused the bike to not be ride-worthy. When I was a newbie to EVs, I was given the impression that EVs would be far more reliable than ICE vehicles, given that they seem much less complex, that is, until you consider the possible complexity and newness of the software and hardware integration in them. I have a Soliton Jr. that I thought would have performed (reliability-wise) much better than the four Kelly controllers that I have owned, but my new Soliton failed after 3 months due to internal soldering issues. I think we'll notice similar occurrences because these companies are struggling to reach or maintain profitability and they don't have much experience manufacturing, but if they last another few years, I think they'll gain the profitability while making more reliable parts. They don't really have much a choice in this matter. The Soliton failure it nearly cemented the idea that I could not get a reliable electric vehicle. I have had battery failures (Thunder-Sky), controller failures (Kelly and Soliton) and the only reliable part has been the motor.
I would like to own one of the Zero bikes, but I can't bring myself to pay for something that I consider likely to fail. My converted bike performs almost as well, except for the range,and cost much less than half.
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