Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Richard230]

Here is a link to some "Readers Digest"- type articles regarding what is new in battery science:  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130410103921.htm

[WindRider]

It will be interesting to see how long the batt packs last in Zero motorcycles.   From what I can glean it seems like Zero engineers have set up the BMS to provide max life by limiting max discharge, max charge, and temp ranges. 

My hope when I made the plunge into the electric world was for at least a 7 year lifetime on the batt pack.  I hope that by the time my batt pack starts failing I can upgrade it to the ZF25 which will also be half the cost and half the weight.   It is an interesting thought.   I know that Zero can always make a new bike compelling but the rolling frame and motor on these bikes could last a really long time.   

One thing is for sure:  it will be an interesting ride and the future will probably be a surprise.   

[NoiseBoy]

Tesla Roadster owners are reporting in excess of 250k miles now with a drop to over 90% capacity, much higher than anticipated when the car was designed.  It seems the more stable chemistrys' are more resilient than originally thought in real world environments.

[TargeT]

Battery performance begins to suffer as soon as the temperature climbs above 86 degrees Fahrenheit

Great,, that's like every single day here

[Lipo423]

Controlling Max charge, discharge & temperature helps in keeping Lithium batteries in good health, no question, but they age anyway...7 years is not a bad time until capacity will start dropping below 80% nominal capacity approx.
When deciding to acquire an electrical vehicle it is needed a kind of "discipline" to take proper care of the batteries like:

- Never leave them at 100% charge for a long period of time (when planning to do so keep at 30% max)
- Always cycle them, never left them without charging/discharging for a long period (they will age anyway)
- Do not charge right away after being used
- Try to avoid deep discharge
- Charge at 1C max whenever possible
- Do not expose the vehicle at high temperatures (summertime at direct sunlight in very hot days)

But I guess you guys know all of this...

[spelunker]

So, how long do you wait before you plug your bike in?

[WindRider]

Maybe I am a bad Zero owner:

- I ride it like a motorcycle
- I ride it in the cold
- I will ride it when it is hot (gets up to 110 sometimes here in the summer)
- I plug it in as soon as I am done riding it when I arrive at the office so that it will be ready to go at the end of the day
- I plug it in as soon as I get home a lot of the time
- I will ride it until it stops if I need to get somewhere and it has a little juice left
- I will charge it when it is hot in the summer at the office
- I get it dirty and I ride 6 miles of dirt every day
- I ride rough roads that shake the fasteners off of things and are littered with hubcaps and failed suspension parts
- I ride in the rain if it rains
- I never change the oil 

Basically, I am trusting that Zero Engineers knew what they were doing when they engineered this wonderful machine to be ridden as a motorcycle and used like a motorcycle in a variety of real world conditions.   The BMS makes a lot of decisions to protect the battery pack, I hope it works as good as it can.

Maybe my battery pack will not last as long as it could but I bought this machine to ride it and I am not overly concerned about babying the batteries.   Time will tell how the batteries survive my use and abuse.

[Lipo423]

waiting 30-45 minutes should be enough for cooling down in a ventilated or non-hot area.

Agreed. Machines should work without any problem if they are properly designed...my experience with electric and internal combustion vehicles shows that sometimes is not 100% that way, so I suggest to people to follow basic instructions to not face potential problems that I faced myself -and my wallet- when I was an inexperienced "electric rider"
Battery pack is about 70-80% of the $ bike value

[BSDThw]

I think an advantage is the ZF9 has 120Ah and the ZF6 80Ah (Zero 2012).

The standard charger delivers 10A so we are far away from 1C this will help even if the battery is still "hot" the charging will not additional heat up so much.

But this is something I just believe and it is not based on data!

[skeezmour]

You must also remember that some of the lithium batteries are endothermic while charging.  That is up to a certain charge C rate.

[Lipo423]

The endothermic nature of the charge chemical reaction is weak compared to other heat sources. The weak endothermic reaction does not counterbalance the increase in heat becacuse of charging.
At high current levels proper cooling is needed all the time (our bikes do not have an active cooling system).
In an ideal design you need to arrange the physical battery placement with a number of PTC devices to make sure there is a proper heat management. This "cell" placement is a very critical element when designing high power Lithium battery packs

[benswing]

Windrider, I do the same thing as you in terms of riding how and when I want regardless of temperature or conditions and I plug it in ASAP to get the most charge so I can get back on it again.  So far, so good!

In other battery news, there is an article by a BMW Active-E owner who has driven 44,000 miles and so far is experiencing about 8% capacity loss.  Since capacity loss is not linear, and is based on a host of factors, there is no predicting what this means for the future of his battery.  However, it has good information.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/04/25/understanding-battery-capacity-loss/

[Richard230]

In yesterday's newspaper there was a column regarding Prius owners who have big miles on their cars with no battery problems.  One owner said they had 560,000 miles on their Prius and the battery still functions like new.  Several other owners report similar results with around 250,000 miles on the clock.  Not bad!

[WindRider]

I think it will be hard for me to put more than 7-10K miles/ season on my Zero given it's range and recharge time.   It looks like I cover more miles than most riders here so if Zero's estimates are good (200K - 300K miles to 80% Capacity) I think that battery life will not be much of an issue.

Before I can wear out that battery pack I will likely want a new bike.