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[MostlyBonkers]

This may belong in the pics and videos section, but I'm hoping it might prompt some discussion on how quickly the SR is off the line up to city road speeds (30-40mph).

I'm not certain it was a fair contest to be honest. Surely the H2 in first gear must have more torque at the back wheel? At what point does the extreme power advantage of the H2 cone into play? Above 40-50mph, it would seem.

It's actually worth watching the video for the review too. The bike dealer certainly seems to know his stuff for the most past and is very good at conveying the information.

[Richard230]

I found that video entertaining.  That sure is a knowledgeable Zero salesman.  I suspect those are hard to find. 

[MrDude_1]

I'm not certain it was a fair contest to be honest. Surely the H2 in first gear must have more torque at the back wheel? At what point does the extreme power advantage of the H2 cone into play? Above 40-50mph, it would seem.

To make it simple... He did not launch the bike. You can make an argument about how much easier it is to launch a zero (just pin it) but the H2 and even a common 600cc sportbike can be faster from zero to any number you want. the ICE sportbike always has more torque available at the rear wheel if you know how to ask for it.   that last part is the key.
honestly, that guy doesn't seem to really belong on an H2.. it's not an intermediate rider bike.

[MichaelJohn]

In almost all real world situations an SR will get the jump on most ICE bikes. Not many riders do hard launches from stop lights and even though I don't think Zeros launch all that quickly, unles you rev your ICE and pop the clutch I will most likely leave you behind - and I have done that many times. From a roll there are quicker bikes than Zeros but I have ridden several liter bikes and unless you are in the right gear and the right rev range I will get you simply by having quicker acces to the power. Sure, a supersport will catch and pass a Zero and there's no way a Zero can match a supersport's top end or high speed acceleration but again, in the real world, an SR is tough to beat. Here is what Troy Siahaan (of Motorcycle.com) said:

"We would be doing the SR a disservice starting anywhere other than its performance. Many times we wax poetic about the pulling power and stump-yanking torque of electrics, but let’s add some perspective. In our 2012 Hyper sportbike comparo between the Kawasaki ZX-14R and Suzuki Hayabusa – two of the fastest production motorcycles on the planet – the Kawi put out 109.3 ft.-lb. while the Busa made 101.7 ft.-lb. The SR’s motor, with its upgraded 660-amp (240 amps more than the standard S) motor controller, bests the Suzuki with 106 ft.-lb. rated at its shaft! Of course, both the ZX and Busa make almost thrice the horses than the SR’s measly 67 (188.1 and 171.0 for the Kawi and Suzi, respectively), but in a (short) stoplight-to-stoplight drag race, the Zero has a real shot at embarrassing the two gas bikes."

This is from a guy that has ridden more high performance motorcycles than probably everyone on this forum combined. And that was the 2014 model he was talking about.

I know about torque multiplication and the huge numbers that ICE bikes can put on the ground but they just can't get to that power as quickly as a Zero can without some preparation which usually makes the Zero effectively quicker - at least up to 70 or 80mph and beyond that I don't really care. Around town and at mid-range speeds an SR is mighty quick (and instantly quick) and that's where I have all of my fun.

[MrDude_1]

unles you rev your ICE and pop the clutch

and this is called, launching the bike.  If you're NOT using the clutch to move the ICE bike off the line, you're not launching it anywhere close to quick.

[MostlyBonkers]

In comparing what might happen at the average traffic light with an average rider, then it probably is a reasonable comparison. Even if there is going to be a bit of a contest, few ICE bikers will treat a launch like the top of Bray Hill at the start of the TT.

Getting that initial jump on a litre bike is very satisfying. I manage it even with my DS.  It doesn't last long with the DS though.

I imagine you could be at 70mph by the time a Superbike catches up. It might get past pretty quick, but then it might also be time to slow down for the next light.  I think the SR deserves the title of King of the Commute. A phrase coined by Doug, if memory serves.

[MrDude_1]

so the argument is, it wins a race.... but only if the opponent is not racing?
I love the zero, but this kind of backward argument drives me nuts.

are we talking about the motorcycle or are we talking about the rider?
Motorcycle, the ICE wins.
Competent Rider.... the ICE wins.
Rider that doesnt know hes "racing"...  zero wins.

I put over 75,000 miles on my last CBR1000RR. I kept the stock muffler. The bike was quiet and not noticeable until I started to approach 10,000 RPM.. at that point I am going 80+mph... at reasonable speeds, its as quiet as a 180hp ICE bike gets. In first gear, at any point from zero to redline, the limitation of acceleration is the CG of the bike (assuming normal traction conditions).. this holds true for most sportbikes.
This is also why for the range of acceleration we're talking, a 600 is just as quick as a literbike.  The primary difference is that the 600cc bike will redline just above 60mph, while the literbike will redline above 90mph. 

that brings up another annoyance... the talk of "all this torque"... sure when you compare crank torque to electric motor torque, the electric wins the peak number, and the ICE does not make its torque constantly.  Yet in actual riding the literbike they're comparing it to will have more torque at the wheel and a greater acceleration rate.


I love the zero SR, and in its stock form, its adequate for a performance enthusiast. It is not, comparable to a literbike for acceleration.

[NEW2elec]

A Zero is not going to beat an Ice super sport bike at most any "real" race at any "real" race track.  This is a fact. 
But.
This is an eye opening display of what electric bikes can do in the near future.  These little displays of low end torque wipe the "what a piece of shit" grin off some faces.  Some of these people who "don't know they're racing" think electric is a total joke and think there is no race to be had.
Putting on, as I like to call it, my one cool trick gets people more interested and at least gets them thinking about what could be and then figuring how all the other pluses of the platform add up.

I don't mind smiling after someone overtakes me and I wave bye, I know they were "shocked" when they got a full view of my bike from behind before they had to get serious.
 
Besides there are always cops just over the hill waiting for a nice loud bike while I regen some more range.   

[Doug S]

I would tend to say let's not hype our technology beyond what it really is. Sure, a powerful ICE bike with a good rider (who's prepared and trying) can launch harder than our bikes, and it's just silly to claim otherwise. That H2 video is so unrealistic it made me cringe.

But I do still maintain that in the real world, barring out-and-out stoplight drag races, the kind of torquey responsiveness our bikes show is not only more useful, it's often more satisfying and fun than just about any other vehicle. The other day I was riding home from work when my boss drove by me in his Jaguar F-type, blipping his throttle trying to show me who's fast. Now, that's a wicked cool car, and it's wicked fast, but I jumped on the throttle and blew back by him before he ever had me in his rear-view mirror. Sure, if we'd kept going, he'd have left me dead on the road, and if we'd actually bugged each other at a light, he'd have engaged his launch system and I'd have been toast right from the start. But rolling on from 35 mph, it was no contest. It takes his transmission a second to even find the right gear when he stands on the throttle, and by that time I was gone. We had a long conversation about torque vs. power, and throttle response, the next day. I think he's beginning to think maybe he should have bought the Tesla Model S instead.

[MrDude_1]

I would tend to say let's not hype our technology beyond what it really is. Sure, a powerful ICE bike with a good rider (who's prepared and trying) can launch harder than our bikes, and it's just silly to claim otherwise. That H2 video is so unrealistic it made me cringe.

Exactly.
Our bikes are awesome, but when you overhype and oversell it beyond what it is... it sets up disappointment.