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[Rokoneer]

The machine is a 'new' 2011 Zero S demo that has 1500 miles on it but would be sold with a full two year warranty. I would buy the bike from out of state and have it shipped to me. The nearest Zero dealers to me are a minimum of FOUR hours away, with the nearest actually being in a different country (Oh, Canada...)

I've owned dozens of bikes and been fascinated with the Zero's for a few years and am in a place to consider buying a reasonably priced model (which means not new...). I'm very mechanically adept with 'traditional' motorized vehicles but have no electric vehicle specific experience. I'm not intimidated by electrics and enjoy learning new things.

I'm wondering if owning a Zero with no dealer in reasonable distance is a wise thing to do. I've scoured the various forums and it seems like the newer models have needed some tweaking that's normally done by dealers. I'm not willing to drive 500 miles round trip to a dealer for such things. That would make the machine unfeasible for me.

In your opinion would it be wise for me to purchase a Zero knowing what I've described. Does the manufacturer deal with owners in a one on one fashion if there is no 'local' dealer?

Thanks so much for any and all input. I appreciate any pearls of wisdom that current owners may have to offer.

[ed5000]

It's always nice to have an electric bike in the stable.  You never know when they'll take the next refinery down for mainenance or blow one up and then, of course, watch out for price spikes.

If your handy you could certainly keep the bike on the road yourself.  Zero will most likely will try to help you out with at least some tech support. 

I guess our biggest question is what kind of riding are you planning to do?

[protomech]

I'm approximately 4 hours and 220 miles away from my nearest Zero dealer.

So far I have experienced two warranty issues with my 2012 purchased in March. I'm pretty pleased with Zero's response in both cases, though of course I would be more pleased if I did not have the issues in the first place.

Issue #1: the battery management system circuitboard was inadequately treated for weather resistance and faulted at 1700 miles. Zero shipped me a new board and a diagnostics kit to swap and install the board. I had the option to take the bike to a Honda or Yamaha dealer and have them perform the swap.

Issue #2: the motor intermittently cuts out or becomes rough, starting in earnest around 4000 miles. Not sure if controller, throttle, or motor issue. Zero shipped me a crate, I am shipping the bike back to them today and will be without it for approximately a week.

I'm hoping to get all of the early teething issues corrected while the bike is covered under warranty, as shipping the bike cross-country is non-feasible if I'm paying out of pocket. I'd like to see a little more customer engagement from Zero and more customer diagnostic tools available, but I suspect Zero would much rather see the dealer network take care of service issues.

The major maintenance items for the 2011 bikes are brush replacements for the motor, belt replacements (every 10k?), tire replacements, fork / brake inspections etc. All of those items should be relatively reasonable to tackle at home.

[Rokoneer]

Thank you ed5000 and promototech as this is the kind of input I'm looking for.

My riding would be primarily pleasure and/or short commuting. I'm a big fan of back country roads and not so much for traffic heavy areas and tend to ride on paved roads that don't see much traffic. My biggest fear with a Zero on these roads is probably the potential for an animal collision. Just this AM, on my way to the gym, I had a mother deer and her two fawns just stand on the side of the road and stare as I went by, and I was riding a fairly abrasive two stroke! Perhaps they wouldn't notice me at all on a Zero.....

Good to hear Zero Corporate seems to be willing to help the dealership challenged, that eases my concerns.

Much appreciation for taking the time to answer, I'm all ears....good or bad.

[manlytom]

Hi
The 2011 are of different motor/controller and battery types. A very improved and more reliable 2010.
Initially my dealer was 10 miles away. As they do not know much about ebikes and didnt like 2010 warranty claims --- always weeks to get it addressed. I started emailing Zero support and get replies. Though i am 10000 miles away and they might make an exception.

Overall the Zero is not complex and this forum is now shifting into troubleshoouting help as well. So reasonably covered.

[dkw12002]

I bought a 2011 S demo too and have not had any problems with it. It had 1,000 miles on it when I bought it in Jan. and I've put another 2300 miles on it myself without any problems. My dealer is under 4 miles away though so I have peace of mind. I wouldn't have the foggiest how to deal with the electronics, bms, or motor, so I would not be in the market for a bike like the Zero if the dealer were distant. An e-bike might serve you well too if you want a smaller investment but like electric power. It's really just a slow electric motorcycle, but since you can pedal it (or throw it in the back of your car or truck), you won't get stranded. When you get to work, you take the battery pack inside to recharge it in your office. E-bikes are cool too, but you have to stay off to the side of the road and can't take them on the interstate. Easier to repair too..just re-order the component that doesn't work...motor, controller, or battery are the only major parts. Top speed is about 28 mph. You can dodge deer at that speed. I bought an ampedbike at the max. legal size of an e-bike in Texas which is 36 volt/ 750 watt. I bought  2 Li batteries, so I can go about 30 miles without pedaling at all. If I pedal a little, the range is essentially unlimited. Ideal for slower commutes and quiet country riding.  

[Rokoneer]

Been interesting researching 'used' Zero's while awaiting for the planets to align for my purchase. While all 'motorsports' vehicles depreciate fairly quickly it sure seems like 'electrosports' vehicles depreciate even more so. As a long time motorcyclist with over 75 bikes that have come and gone I fully accept that, except on few. occasions a loss when selling is part of the passion.

The two candidates are a 2010 Zero S with 715 miles for $3500, or a 2011 Zero S demo, 1500 miles, with full two year warranty for $6250. A Zero will be my 7th current bike but first electric, to be used totally for fun and commuting to work and the gym, etc. No highway.

Opinions needed: Is the '11 that much better a bike than the '10 to justify the larger expense? I certainly appreciate the cosmetics of the '11 over the '10, but for almost three grand I can bend a bit as well as do some cosmetic personalization. But if the bike is significantly 'worse' than the '11 in range, power and maintenance respects I fear it'd not be worth buying it to just save a few scheckles.

So, in a nutshell" '10 or '11 and why?

Thanks so much for any input, I appreciate it!

[Richard230]

I test rode both a 2010 and a 2011 Zero S and my recommendation is to go with the 2011.  The 2011 models have an improved cooling system, a more powerful motor and a larger battery.  Plus, I like the big headlight.

Speaking of depreciation, I purchased an Electric Motorsport GPR-S in January of 2010 for $9000 and I just sold it (with 24 dead batteries, no thanks to a bad BMS board) for $2000.   

[protomech]

2010 and 2011 are not much different. 2011 has 10% more range, belt drive, better cooling for the motor.

Big difference is the warranty. And possibly the battery condition.

If it was a difference between $7k and $10k, I'd say the 2011 all the way.

If the 2010 meets your needs I'd ride it for a few years and then re-evaluate.

[protomech]

Part of the reason for the high depreciation is the rapid advancement in electrics. Part of it is uncertainty in new technology.

Compared to a 2010 CBR600, a 2012 CBR600 is basically the same bike. $350 price bump and maybe some new stickers.

Compared to a 2010 Zero S, the 2012 S ZF6 got a $1500 price bump, +50% more battery, a more powerful lower maintenance motor, a quieter low maintenance belt drive system, regular sized wheels with tubeless tires, regen braking, and a much higher top speed (88 mph vs ~65 mph). Despite packing on a few more pounds, EPA city range increased from 39 miles to 76 miles (+95%).

If you buy new, you should be sure you can be happy with the bike for a few years. Selling a year after to buy the new hotness (say, Empulse) is tempting but very expensive : P

If you buy used, you can take advantage of the high depreciation and score a lightly used bike for very little.

[ColoPaul]

Speaking of depreciation, I purchased an Electric Motorsport GPR-S in January of 2010 for $9000 and I just sold it (with 24 dead batteries, no thanks to a bad BMS board) for $2000.   

Hi Richard,
  Interesting, I had to look up Electric Motorsport, I had never really heard of them.  I guess they have a "Heathkit" style-bike.  I also went to the other part of this forum and read about "Guity"s saga.  Did you have any real problems with your GPR-S before the bad BMS board fried your batteries?  How far did you ride it?  How would you compare the quality/reliability with that of your Zero?

[Richard230]

Speaking of depreciation, I purchased an Electric Motorsport GPR-S in January of 2010 for $9000 and I just sold it (with 24 dead batteries, no thanks to a bad BMS board) for $2000.   

Hi Richard,
  Interesting, I had to look up Electric Motorsport, I had never really heard of them.  I guess they have a "Heathkit" style-bike.  I also went to the other part of this forum and read about "Guity"s saga.  Did you have any real problems with your GPR-S before the bad BMS board fried your batteries?  How far did you ride it?  How would you compare the quality/reliability with that of your Zero?

EMS first started out as an EV manufacturer making PMDC Etek-powered motorcycles in 2008. They retained a company in Thailand called Tiger to make the rolling chassis for them.  They then installed 20 or 24 Hi Power 50 Ah batteries, the Etek motor, a controller, charger (all off-the-shelf components) into the chassis and wired everything up.  Then hey got the bike approved by DOT as a freeway-legal motorcycle that could be sold anywhere in the U.S. They started selling the bikes through the internet from their "factory" in Oakland, CA.  Later they started selling them though a few retail dealers (such as Hollywood Electric). I bought my 2008 model from The Electric Green Showroom in the summer of 2009. The bike wasn't too bad, considering that it was a bitsa.  It would hit 65 mph and would hold 55 mph up a 6% freeway grade. It would travel about 35 miles at 30 mph on its 3.3 kWh battery pack. Unfortunately, its BMS burned up, after only 300 miles, while charging in my garage and EMS said that they couldn't repair the bike.  However, they offered to give me a credit toward a new upgraded version of the bike powered with a huge D&D sepex motor and a 72V nominal (actual 80V) system. 

I bought this bike in January of 2010 and it ran for 1300 miles before its new and improved BMS failed and took out several of the batteries and likely damaged most of the others.  By that time, EMS was no longer selling the bikes as a manufacturer and my dealer had gone out of business - I can only surmise why.  Actually, the bike wasn't bad when it was running. The chassis was based upon Tiger's top-of-the-line 250cc motorcycle and it was fairly stable at the speeds that it was able to hit and it had better brakes than does my Zero.  Unfortunately, the D&D motor, while very large, had poor performance and its top speed was only about 60 mph. Plus, it really sucked more juice out of those Hi Power batteries than they could supply.  Hopefully, the new owner of the bike will be able to get it running with new and better batteries and a more robust BMS.

My Zero S is a huge step up from the GPR-S and I am happy to be able to ride without wondering if my batteries are bloating and leaking gas.  A build-it-yourself EV is just not for me.  I just want to ride, not fiddle.

[Richard230]

Here is a photo of the 2010 D&D-powered version of the GPR-S.