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[Richard230]

I have a few general questions about my Zero that have been nagging me and I thought I woulds ask them here.

The older model Zero batteries used to need to be run down to near zero capacity a few times to "condition" them.  My understanding is that the latest Li-ion batteries do not need that type of "conditioning".  They can be "conditioned" by just riding normally and do not have to be fully drained before they will reach their rated storage capacity.  Is that correct?

Zero seems to recommend that you leave your charger plugged in all the time when you are not riding the bike. But it kind of bothers me to keep anything plugged into a wall outlet continuously, unless it is a refrigerator or a clock. How often can I get away with plugging the charger in when the bike is in the garage. Right now I am plugging it in for a few hours every day.  Should I keep it plugged in all the time, or just a few hours a week, to obtain the best battery life, when I am not riding it?

Zero has tested the motor on a dyno at around 29 hp. But this is a peak power output and likely can not be maintained for very long.  At the other end of the scale, we have the VIN break-down shown on page 1-5 of the owner's manual. It shows that the 7th and 8th numbers of the VIN, read from the left, are the "Net Brake Horsepower" designation "M3". This conforms to the VIN that is stamped on my headstock and on the sticker at the front of the frame. So that means that the 2012 Zero S and DS are rated by someone as having a 9.1 kW motor, producing 12.2 HP.

Now my question here is, is this an industry standard measurement? And why is the HP number so low? I can see how 29 HP could not be produced for very long due to heat build up, but on the other hand, 12.2 HP seems a bit low, even under during all-day use.  Does anyone know the story behind these HP numbers and the "M3" category designation ?

[Lipo423]

Richard,

I will try to give you my opinion on your questions:

1. Battery. There are no Lithium batteries that like to be "fully drained" -including the previous model- (no idea who came up with such advice...). Your assumption is correct.

2. Charging/storaging. This one is a tricky one...I would not recommend you to let the battery charger plugged. Why?
  - In the case of a storm you may break it if the line has a big voltage fluctuation (unless you have a especial protection in your house -95% of the houses do not...)
  - No need to keep it plugged and generate residual compsumption
If you are planning to not run the bike leave the batteries 30-40% charged, not fully charged...if you discharge partially the battery you may charge it again as this will not damage the battery - Lithium batteries love low discharge...you will keep them healthier by doing that.

3. The way Zero measures power is a "personal one"  nominal power, is the one the motor is rated, peak power (I guess the 29 Hp)is a marginal measure.
The "M3" designation is not an standard for electrical motors -not, that I'm aware of-, regular motors have a stamped piece of metal/decal with its main features (Volts, Nominal Power, Nominal Speed, Duty, pole, Hz, etc...), which I guess Zero has removed in the one on the bike.

[protomech]

I have a few general questions about my Zero that have been nagging me and I thought I woulds ask them here.

The older model Zero batteries used to need to be run down to near zero capacity a few times to "condition" them.  My understanding is that the latest Li-ion batteries do not need that type of "conditioning".  They can be "conditioned" by just riding normally and do not have to be fully drained before they will reach their rated storage capacity.  Is that correct?

Yeah, I think that's right.

Zero seems to recommend that you leave your charger plugged in all the time when you are not riding the bike. But it kind of bothers me to keep anything plugged into a wall outlet continuously, unless it is a refrigerator or a clock. How often can I get away with plugging the charger in when the bike is in the garage. Right now I am plugging it in for a few hours every day.  Should I keep it plugged in all the time, or just a few hours a week, to obtain the best battery life, when I am not riding it?

It's probably fine to unplug the bike after it's finished balancing. I don't think you'll save much energy by doing so - I would assume balancing will take a little longer the next time it's fully charged if it stays unplugged for a significant length of time.

The Zero sat in my garage from friday evening until monday morning, about 60 hours. It used 0.37 kWh (3.5 cents of electricity) after balancing late friday evening (need to verify, wrote it down) .. so about 6 watts averaged out. It's about a third of the power draw of a CCFL.

Zero has tested the motor on a dyno at around 29 hp. But this is a peak power output and likely can not be maintained for very long.  At the other end of the scale, we have the VIN break-down shown on page 1-5 of the owner's manual. It shows that the 7th and 8th numbers of the VIN, read from the left, are the "Net Brake Horsepower" designation "M3". This conforms to the VIN that is stamped on my headstock and on the sticker at the front of the frame. So that means that the 2012 Zero S and DS are rated by someone as having a 9.1 kW motor, producing 12.2 HP.

Right, probably about a minute .. and it'll be a gradual decline down to the continuous rating, not necessarily a sharp drop off. Eg 1 minute power might be 29 hp, 5 minute power might be 25 hp, 15 minute power might be 20 hp.. etc.

I think that's generally due to motor heat soak .. but I'm curious as well. Will be interesting to see if the Empulse can sustain its motor peak for a longer period due to the liquid cooling.

Now my question here is, is this an industry standard measurement? And why is the HP number so low? I can see how 29 HP could not be produced for very long due to heat build up, but on the other hand, 12.2 HP seems a bit low, even under during all-day use.  Does anyone know the story behind these HP numbers and the "M3" category designation ?

Good question.

[Richard230]

If there is an industry VIN standard for motor output, it sure doesn't apply to IC motorcycles. I checked the VIN numbers of all of my IC bikes and could find no pattern. The 7th and 8th positions of the VIN were typically two numbers that seemed to have no relationship to the engine power or displacement. I also checked the VIN of my 2010 GPR-S and the 7th and 8th numbers are 15, so no help there (I note the production number is 007). My guess is that either Zero made up this VIN designation, or this is something new for 2012 - perhaps some new DOT regulation for electric vehicles. 

[protomech]

I believe it is a manufacturer-specific thing. I checked the 2010 manual and the 2010 bikes' VIN encodes a range of power, not one specific power measurement.

Digits 7-8 Net Brake Horse Power
05 = 0 - 50 HP
51 = 50 - 100 HP
10 = 100 + HP

[craigq]

The X/XU manual shows the following for the engine code:

• A1 = Type A 9kW (12.1 HP) -X
• M0 = Type M 4.1 kW (5.5 HP) -XU-LSM
• M2 = Type M 5.2 kW (7.0 HP) -XU

[nick5446]

The VIN designation thing is all determined by the manufacturer and managed internally. There won't be any correlation with other bikes.