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Author Topic: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart  (Read 2149 times)

Pard

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2024, 03:01:40 PM »

@jotjotde I read through your thread about your chain experience.  It was very helpful and informative.

Given the same treatment, better quality chains seem to resist corrosion better than the lesser quality chains.  Not sure why.  Must be a different metal alloy used and perhaps better machining.  Additionally, the chains with colored or coated side plates will resist rust for longer.  The rollers and bushings are not coated.  Lube protects them.

Solid pins pass through hollow pins (bushings), and are sealed on the sides by the o rings. 

The hollow pins through which they pass serve as the bushings that the rollers rotate on. 

The outside of the bushings and the inside of the rollers are not sealed.

If the outer plate metal is getting corroded then those same corrosive forces are reaching the exposed metal inside the rollers.

Good video:


« Last Edit: July 22, 2024, 08:16:44 PM by Pard »
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jotjotde

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2024, 03:39:28 PM »

@Pard, I am glad that someone found that interesting  :)

The video you linked in your post is informative. What the guys says in many words is the simple fact that no cleaning or lube job can improve anything what is in the inner part of the chain. This 'inner' lube is what the chain life is mainly depending on.
Regina's claim of 'low maintenance' is based on a alleged coating of these inner surfaces with carbides or something in the hope that the surfaces are less prone to abrasion/corrosion. That sounds good in theory but obviously it is not working.



Off topic: Regarding chain maintenance, my personal opinion is
- Never use pressure cleaners
- Never clean too rigiously with brushes, pads or whatever
- Avoid chain cleaners, detergents etc. or at least use them sparingly (don't coat the chain with it, rather apply on a cloth and wipe)
- Thin coats of lube are enough
- Application of the chain outside is totally OK

Here's why.
Over lifetime of the chain this 'inner lube' is compromised, mainly by stress, temperature, moisture or even chain cleaner (if you are a hardcore user of this stuff).
You see, the lube is basically a mix long-chained hydrocarbons with some additives. Stress (mechanical forces) as well as temperature lead to breaking (cracking) of the hydrocarbons impairing their lubing faculties. Moisture or chain cleaner creeping through the O/X-rings (no sealing is 100%) change these hydrocarbons chemically, impairing them as well. When reacting with water, this is called hydrogenation, so keep your pressure cleaner away from the chain.
Second advice is: Rigorously scrubbing with a too hard brush, scotch brite or whatever can displace or even damage the O/X-rings which seal the inner lube from the outside. So don't do that!

What the video is wrong about, is the fact that the outer rollers do normally NOT rotate, they keep their position even when they take their turn along the sprockets. The sprocket teeths are exactly engineered that way.
Rotation will happen though when over time the teeth wear out, getting the famous sharkfin look or the surfaces under the roller erode or corrode, changing the diameters. Also lengthening of the chain (which happens when the inner lube is not functioning properly anymore, leading to material abrasion) changes the geometry of the tooth/chain configuration, so the roller cannot get smoothly into the groove between two teeths anymore.

With the lube job you are required to do you try to postpone this erosion or corrosion of the roller surfaces. The lube is more or less there to hinder water and debris entering the cleft left and right of the rollers and ingressing even further. So, if these clefts are already lubed, applying more lube does not help anything.It's not necessary to coat the chain thickly with grease.
Also it is not necessary to spray/apply on the inside of the chain.
Spray lubes contain a bit of solvent which makes them fluid enough to spread on their own and creep into the clefts. When the solvent has evaporated, a thin film of lube remains. So after spraying you can wipe of any excess which anyway would fly off the next time you go for a ride.

What I wrote here is true for bikes which see no or rarely rain/wet streets. Water and the fine silt in the water from the street are the worst enemies of the chain. When your chain has gotten wet, dry clean and lube as soon as possible. If you ride regularly in detrimental weather, a permanent oiling device might be a good solution to enjoy a long chain life.
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Specter

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2024, 11:06:34 PM »

when I lube my chain, ill heft the throttle a few times while it's on the stand, that way any excess is thrown off there where you have a towel handy and it's not getting all over your back while riding.  One thing i have also noticed is, the front sprocket guard, take that off and clean in there too, it's amazing how much crap will accumulate in there!  You'll get a huge blob of basically lube and road mud all caked up in there.  Also by giving a little rotation while the bike is on the chocks, you can also check the chain again for proper tension, now that it's fully seated and everything is settled in like it will be when riding.  Once you've done this a few times, you become familiar with how your chain normally sounds, so if there is a bit of a misalignment or tightness just isn't right, you may be able to hear that real quick, and able to adjust it while it's right there hefted up.

Aaron
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Pard

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2024, 05:46:58 AM »

Pretty odd that all motorcycle chain dimensions are in inches and not metric.



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coolhand

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2024, 05:16:53 PM »

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0091PDQVK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Tool required to remove front sprocket nut

Everything else:

Just a question about the tool: I am planning to do the work myself changing the sprockets and chain. I have a SS9, but I assume it is identical on my bike. The tool you need, does it have internal studs ?
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Pard

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2024, 05:32:27 PM »

Not sure if the SS9 has the same sprocket nut, I assume it does.  Others can chime in.

The tool with internal teeth is stronger than the tools with external teeth.  More resistant to bending.  However, both types should work.
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coolhand

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2024, 05:41:48 PM »

Aha, thanx - I thought those were different tools, but now, after consulting with the almighty google, I have seen my erroundous ways.


I think I'll go with the tool with internal stubs - the nm needed is very high, so no chances taken there.

I am 99% positive it is identical on Ribelle and SS9, as everything else is the same (chain lenght, sprocket specs, etc). The two bikes share a lot: Brakes, frame, wheel/tyres, some of the plastics, etc.

If not, I can always return parts not usable.

Thaaaaaaaanx for the reply!

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smithy

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2024, 01:35:12 AM »

Aha, thanx - I thought those were different tools, but now, after consulting with the almighty google, I have seen my erroundous ways.


I think I'll go with the tool with internal stubs - the nm needed is very high, so no chances taken there.

I am 99% positive it is identical on Ribelle and SS9, as everything else is the same (chain lenght, sprocket specs, etc). The two bikes share a lot: Brakes, frame, wheel/tyres, some of the plastics, etc.

If not, I can always return parts not usable.

Thaaaaaaaanx for the reply!

Even the Experia uses the same sprocket nut and tool....although the Experia chain is 520 and rear sprocket is aluminium.

Smithy.
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Pard

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2024, 06:01:45 AM »

Finally got around to changing the chain and sprockets that I had purchased a while back.

The front sprocket retaining nut was finger tight.  I had never touched it until now at 7k miles.  Must have been neglected when assembled.  That could have been unfortunate.

Tight now, and I used thread lock in addition to the locking washer.

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Pard

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2024, 06:03:15 AM »

Rear Sprocket
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jotjotde

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2024, 11:31:13 AM »

Nice job, Pard!

The front sprocket retaining nut was finger tight.  I had never touched it until now at 7k miles.  Must have been neglected when assembled.  That could have been unfortunate.
Tight now, and I used thread lock in addition to the locking washer.

Yeah, loosing the front sprocket while riding would have been catastrophic! That reminds me that also on my bike the nut was assebled wrong, i.e. with the chamfered side looking toward the outside. It's good that there is a locking washer for additional safety.
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Specter

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Re: Rebelle RS Chain and Sprocket Shopping Cart
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2024, 03:49:09 PM »

Catastrophic in more than one way,  I don't think the motor could come down from such an unloading quick enough before some centrifugal damage may occur if it happened at high speeds.  The moment that thing let loose and you have 100 hp or so trying to spin that thing to the moon.  Granted the electrical forces would try to bring it back once it went forward of the phase angle but still.  It'd be like when a generator slips a pole,  thats a bad day.

If it did get that loose I think you'd have plenty of warning that things were going wrong,  that thing has to come off a bit before it fully clears and that would skew your chain alignment bad enough to really be seen and felt id think

aaron
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