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Author Topic: Kawasaki gives H2 a try  (Read 1950 times)

Richard230

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Re: Kawasaki gives H2 a try
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2024, 03:42:53 AM »

Here is the latest California Hydrogen Highway news. We will be ready to refill the Kawasaki H2 bike.  BTW, if you read the article you will find that the proponents of H2 admit that electric power is more useful for personal vehicle applications.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Specter

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Re: Kawasaki gives H2 a try
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2024, 05:06:18 AM »

Translation, another boondoggle, worthless project that will never finish on time, will probably go 10x over budget, stuffing the pockets of their union cronies who will have the contracts awarded to them to make this nightmare come true.

There are already plenty of sources of commercial hydrogen out there, it's used extensively in the power industry just to name one, so why go through the problems of having to reinvent that wheel of making it?  Oh so you can say it's green, at 500x the cost.  Why not make green hydrocarbon fuels then?  yes it CAN be done, I mean if you are lying about origins about the battery material, and hydrogen material, why not just make synthetic hydrocarbon fuel for your ICE's and not have to worry at all about inventing all this new stuff?

As for transport on your vehicle, probably use the same stuff they use for the compressed gas vehicles, the spun bottles etc.  Hydrogen needs special materials for seals though, since it's so small, it leaks very easily.

Aaron
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princec

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Re: Kawasaki gives H2 a try
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2024, 06:30:21 PM »

It is a silly fuel, best left for use in aircraft. Except I for one would be bloody terrified of travelling in such a device. It amazes me how people think that hydrogen is "just another gas wot burns" without realising just how insanely, complicatedly, dangerously explosive and escapey it is compared to any other gas.

Cas :)
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Specter

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Re: Kawasaki gives H2 a try
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2024, 07:47:25 PM »

I have a hydrogen BBQ.   Yes back in the days they sold them, it's a gas bbq that runs off hydrogen.  The meat comes out very moist with it.  I don't use it anymore TBH I love my smoker much better but they did make them at one point.  You don't need to be afraid of it, just respect it, like you do with electricity and you'll be fine.

People would say the same kind of thing to me working in a power plant, "arent you afraid of the high voltage"?  At half a million volts, trust me, if you screw up, you'll never know it.

Aaron
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jotjotde

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Re: Kawasaki gives H2 a try
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2024, 02:50:11 PM »

It is a silly fuel, best left for use in aircraft. Except I for one would be bloody terrified of travelling in such a device. It amazes me how people think that hydrogen is "just another gas wot burns" without realising just how insanely, complicatedly, dangerously explosive and escapey it is compared to any other gas.
Cas :)

I beg to differ.
Explosion characteristics of hydrogen are similar to other combustible gases (see table).
Hydrogen is extensively used in non-transport applications for more than a century and proper safety procedures are already in place. I do not see any higher risk compared to gasoline.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2024, 02:52:12 PM by jotjotde »
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princec

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Re: Kawasaki gives H2 a try
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2024, 04:21:43 PM »

I beg to differ further :)
Hydrogen is most definitely used in non-transport applications by highly trained professionals in extremely safety conscious environments. It isn't manhandled sloppily by a billion people every single day and shoved into their cranky, ill-maintained deathtraps absentmindedly while they figure out what they want for dinner later. And it really is much more dangerous than, eg. methane, because it does indeed escape far more easily, making it tend to be more likely to explode simply because it is unexpectedly there. It leaks in vast quantities from the tiniest leaks that methane can't even escape out of. A simple leak can catch fire just from its escaping friction, burning with an invisible but incredibly hot flame.

Cas :)
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Specter

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Re: Kawasaki gives H2 a try
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2024, 02:43:51 AM »

Whenever I have to work on the hydrogen system, I bring a IR camera with me to take a quick peek, and also the peeling / blackened paint is a giveaway there is a leak.

In the open Id not worry too much cas,  it's velocity is something to be appreciated how quickly it wants to float up and away and dissipate, but yah, I can see some shit for brains smoking a cigarette while plugging the h2 nozzle in and POP !!

That balloon thing, we did that once in the welding shop,  back in the day, we'd use bottled H2  and a huge manifold to charge up the generators when the bulk system was down for whatever reason, and we got the idea to do an oxy / hydrogen balloon with about 40 feet of cotton string,some lighter fluid and let it float over the river in the middle of the night.

NOBODY was expecting such a sharp hard report when that flame finally hit that balloon as it was over the wide open river.  Then the echo's off the banks, and all the buildings and houses along the river.... then all the lights turning on and people coming outside to see WTF just blew up, and us, standing there with our assholes so tight, you couldn't pull a banjo string thru with a bulldozer, trying to pretend to be just like everyone else, going derp, what was that??  Then the blue lights start showing up...let's just say it was an interesting night.

Seriously though it's no more dangerous than gasoline, in fact would probably be safer, because people would hopefully be a bit more careful around it, and being much lighter than air, is going to float up and away thru the tiniest cracks, where gas fumes, or methane is going to want to stay on the ground,  puddle and hang around.

The comment about Hydrogen being handled by highly trained personnel in the most safety conscious environments.  that made me laugh.  You ever watch the simpsons when they are busing on power plant operators, ie being asleep at the panel, the dog saves them from a melt down etc type of stuff.  If people had ANY clue how close to home so much of that hits they'd shit themselves  8)

Ever see the clown over fill a hydrogen tank and lift the safety at 2500 PSI?   that shit sounded like the space shuttle taking off not only the pressure flow but the spontaneous detonation upon contact with the air as it came out the safety valve.  I stood about 100 feet back and just watched until it all settled down.  People asked me, why didn't you run?  To where?  Where am I going to hide if 10K Ft3  of hydrogen goes up?  naah, if Im gonna die, I want to watch it coming.

Aaron
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Grauteufel

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Re: Kawasaki gives H2 a try
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2024, 04:04:15 AM »

The worst part about hydrogen isn't its flammability or even its propensity to even escape through seemingly solid objects. Unlike any hydrocarbon product, hydrogen can physically and chemically destroy most metals through the various methods of hydrogen embrittlement. It literally diffuses through most commonly used metals and causes them crumble..

The good thing about it from a safety perspective is as Specter points out, while most flammables are heavier than air and pool at ground level, hydrogen floats away and dissapates. Lucky for us most of human type stuff is done at ground level. I'm also getting the impression that everyone who has done the hydrogen and oxygen in a balloon with a string thing is surprised at how sharp and loud the report is when that thing goes off.
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Specter

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Re: Kawasaki gives H2 a try
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2024, 06:50:58 AM »

they are expecting a boom,  like any 4th of july firecracker,  they were not expecting a supersonic shockwave to hit them, which is what happens when you set off a stoich mix of hydrogen/oxygen hence the loud sharp crack.

acetylene is a fun one too if you can't get hydrogen, but please boys and girls,  be stupid careful if you are doing this,  you can easily kill yourself and if someone does call the cops, if they want to, they can be dicks and get you with manufacture of an explosive device.   still, its a cheap way to have some 4th of fun and have fireworks louder than your neighbors :D

Aaron
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