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[KuRi]

Hi, I have a 2020 DSR and the ABS light is never on while riding... is this a change for 2017+  models or am I missing something?

When I turn on the bike, the abs light is intermittent and orange, then after some move it just goes off...

They all do that, sir.   

Thank you, I just got confused by some messages above

[TheRan]

Well, I just had this exact same failure happen to me as I was leaving work today. I was only going maybe 10mph but it's certainly spooky having the lever lock solid.

I recently had my tyres replaced (same size as stock) and a week or two after that I came off the bike and bent my handlebars. While replacing them I also fitted some heated grips. Another week or two after that I would have intermittent ABS failures where the warning light would come on and I'd be able to lock the wheels. Upon this happening I did a resistance test of both wheel sensors thinking maybe they got damaged during the tyre change, the front read 50k and the rear was way off however after plugging the sensors back in the ABS started working properly again and has been fine for another few weeks. Also, when I was getting the ABS failures I sometimes noticed the same sound as De buurman posted in this thread while the light was on: https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10569.msg97544#msg97544

My question is, if I pull the ABS fuse to disable the ABS this will remove any chance of the lever locking up, right? I assume it's caused by the pump shutting a valve so if there's no power going to it then that can't happen.

[Mooseman]

I had a similar problem with my car some 20 years ago. When I tried to apply the brakes, the brake pedal didn't move at all.

In this case, it was caused by a sloppy repair job when the wheel bearing was replaced. Somehow the sensor didn't properly align with the toothed ring after the repair, causing the controller to think the wheel was blocked.

The immediate remedy was to pull the ABS fuse (obviously that disabled the ABS for all wheels) until it could be repaired.

Long story short: you may want to check if the sensor is in the correct position. It it is, check the electrical connection and if that is okay as well, replace the ABS sensor. Or maybe check if the toothed ring is bent. If it's bent, the clearance between the ring and the sensor would vary, causing the controller to do strange things. Also check the teeth if they look normal.

I don't believe for one second that the tires could be the cause for this problem, but there is a chance that the shop bent the ring or otherwise caused trouble. It's certainly worth taking a look at.

[TheRan]

I would have thought it was something to do with the sensor too, if it wasn't for it not playing up until weeks after getting the tyres changed and then working properly for another few weeks. Also, while no one is immune from messing up my mechanic is very experienced.

I'll check the sensor again over the weekend and if the resistance is still way off I'll order a replacement, although it looks like a pain in the arse to run the cable it's going to be easier than replacing the ABS pump.

[Snamrehmot]

Hi all,
Yesterday I had the exact same problem as described by tafka: my front brake lever locked up and felt so hard like trying to squeeze a brick no matter how hard you try. As a result i drove my MY2020 SR into my own driveway entrance gate with some slight damage to the gate, luckily not the motorcycle as it was the last few meters trying to fully stop. My motorcycle has now 8400km's on it and the original tyres are still on it (planning to replace them soon). I never had any problems with it so far. After purchasing the bike I went to the shop after little over 500km's to do the first check up and that's about it. After getting stopped by the gate and trying the brake again, it worked just fine, no ABS lights or anything on the dash. When the problem occured I had no time to look if the light went on or not, and it took only 2-5 sec or so. I remember 2 years ago when  I just received the bike I had the same problem once; I reported it to the dealer but we never gave it more attention and thought it was due to lack of experience with the (at that time brand new electric) motorycle.
As far is my technical knowledge with ABS systems goes; I also think the ABS module is blocking in some way the brake fluid from the lever to the module...
I am wondering what the final solution was for tafka with this problem, my confidence in the motorcycle has a dent you might say...

[Snamrehmot]

Brought my Zero back to the dealer. It was there for little more than 3 weeks and today i got it back. They had the log readout of the computer sent to Zero HQ for analysis. Ultimately they couldn't find anything electronic or ABS related to my front brake lever lock up. So we agreed upon changing the main brake lever pump, for me that was also a plausible solution. The one that has been installed now is a different type than the original one. Brand unfortunately still the same unknown 'J Juan'... However the brake response seems a very little bit more agressive than before, but they also changed the brake pads so i am not sure if that's maybe the reason for the improved braking. To exclude everything mechanical, Zero (according to the dealer, did not see it myself) requested opening and inspection of the brake caliper, but no feedback regarding to that so i assume that was ok. Unfortunately Zero nor the dealer took any financial responsibility and i was charged 595€... I'm happy there is a solution, but my bank account al little less...

[SwampNut]

J.Juan isn't unknown; they are now owned by Brembo and have been around for 60 years.  They are highly regarded in UTV racing.  I believe, however, that the electronics on our bikes are from Bosch.  I'm not sure exactly where the line stops, but the ABS/TC computer on my SR/S are Bosch.  Which I *think* means that the pumps are too.

[Snamrehmot]

Thanks for the update on the 'Juan' brand, didn't know that, and it gives me a little bit more confidence in the brakes.

[Demoni]

As far is my technical knowledge with ABS systems goes; I also think the ABS module is blocking in some way the brake fluid from the lever to the module...

An intermittent fault of the brake is almost certainly related to a ABS module malfunctioning. There are valves inside the ABS pump that separate the master cylinder from the calipers. When the system activates these valves close and another set of valves open to allow the ABS pump to control the fluid pressure provided to the calipers. As brake fluid can not be compressed when the circuit is blocked it will result in you being unable to pull the lever.

The easiest way to test this is to either unplug the ABS or remove the fuse providing it power.

To exclude everything mechanical, Zero (according to the dealer, did not see it myself) requested opening and inspection of the brake caliper.

This suggestion does not make sense, unless all of the pistons are completely frozen and unable to move. If one piston is locked up the fluid pressure provided by the lever would still actuate the other pistons.

Long story short: you may want to check if the sensor is in the correct position. It it is, check the electrical connection and if that is okay as well, replace the ABS sensor. Or maybe check if the toothed ring is bent. If it's bent, the clearance between the ring and the sensor would vary, causing the controller to do strange things. Also check the teeth if they look normal.

Not sure if ABS systems in cars function differently. From my experience motorcycles have an initial self test before the ABS system activates. This is why the ABS light will be illuminated when you first turn the bike on and then goes off after the first ~25-100ft of travel.
The system monitors the signals from the wheel speed sensors. When it sees bad data from a failed sensors, damaged "tone ring" or an incorrect air gap between the two the system should throw a fault and the ABS light will stay illuminated, indicating the system is not activated.

[Snamrehmot]

An intermittent fault of the brake is almost certainly related to a ABS module malfunctioning. There are valves inside the ABS pump that separate the master cylinder from the calipers. When the system activates these valves close and another set of valves open to allow the ABS pump to control the fluid pressure provided to the calipers. As brake fluid can not be compressed when the circuit is blocked it will result in you being unable to pull the lever.

The easiest way to test this is to either unplug the ABS or remove the fuse providing it power.

That had been suggested by the dealer as well, I am still in the "after reparation" mode, testing if they did a good job. If the problem returns, i will unplug the module and test again. the weather here has turned frosty, not really motorcycling conditions, so i have to wait until March.


This suggestion does not make sense, unless all of the pistons are completely frozen and unable to move. If one piston is locked up the fluid pressure provided by the lever would still actuate the other pistons.

no that is exactly what the dealer and myself agreed upon, it doesn't make sense, but the Zero HQ insisted on checking the caliper.

[Brit64]

Hi All,

I thought I would share the story of my experience with my 2017 Zero DSR with you just in case anyone has seen similar problems to me.

I live in the UK and I got the bike in March 2017.  I used it almost continuously (mostly commuting 50 miles a day) for a year with no issues, took it in for servicing when it needed it etc.  After about a year, the original tyres were looking a bit worn so I ended up changing them to road tyres.  I spoke to my dealer and they recommended a brand for me.  Incidentally, I think this added about 10% to the range and made for a much smoother ride. (130/80V17 AVON ROADRIDER, 100/90V19 AVON ROADRIDER)

I rode it for another year with no problems then just after the warranty ran out (isn't it always the way), I started having issues (maybe april(ish) 2019).

First the belt snapped (after only about 14k miles), which was not too much of a problem, I replaced it and carried on.  A few days later, I noticed (just once) that the front brake didn't work.  I tried to pull the lever and it was locked solid (the lever that is).  After a few more yards the brake released (with a sort of shuddering feel to the lever) and then everything was fine again.  I thought the front calipers might have been sticking, so I took then apart, checked them, put new pads in etc.  All seemed fine.  Then a few days later it happened again.

At this point, I contacted the dealer and explained what happened.  They arranged to take the bike in (they are some distance from me) and did some investigation.  Of course, they couldn't reproduce the problem and as a precaution (under advice from Zero) they replaced the master cylinder which I paid for.  I got the bike back and all seemed fine for a while until it happened again on the way to work.  Then when riding the bike back from work, I noticed that the ABS light was on.  I just happened to be looking at it when I used the front brake and the lever locking happened again.  This time I noticed that as that problem happened, the ABS warning light went out.

Of course, I passed this information onto the dealer and they took the bike back in.  Under Zero's advice they replaced the ABS pump.  This time, Zero did pay for it because they had given the advice to replace the master cylinder.  I got the bike back and all seemed fine for a month of riding.  Then one day, the bike stopped charging.  So off it went back to the dealer again to get the charger replaced.  In fairness to Zero, they covered the cost of the parts because of the other issues I had had with the bike.

I got the bike back and this time didn't even manage to ride it because the ABS warning light was on again.  So, back it went.  By now (I've missed out a lot of to-ing and fro-ing for brevity), it was getting to Winter.  Eventually, Zero said it must be because I have non-standard tyres on there.  I explained that (on and off) I had ridden the bike for 18 months or so with those tyres, a year of which I had no issues - note that the dealer doesn't understand this explanation either.  I sent the logs from the bike (which apparently just say "ABS SILA reporting an error") and Zero just insisted it is because of the tyres.  I asked the dealer if there would be any other issues, other than the ABS being disabled (remember the ABS system had been replaced at this point and since then the front brake locking hadn't happened).  They said, no it should be fine.  So I accepted their explanation that the tyres were the issue and thought I would ride with them until they needed changing and then put the 'official' tyres back to see if it solved the problem.

I was reasonably happy with that situation until (last night) going home, just riding the bike up onto my driveway (obviously there is a bit of a bump), the ABS light went off and the front brake lever locked up again.  I test rode it after that and the ABS light is staying on (as it has been since I got it back from the dealer the last time).  So, now I have a bike where (randomly) the front brake may or may not work one time when I pull the lever.

It certainly makes for an interesting Russian roulette experience when riding.

So, today, I am waiting again for a reply from Zero in order to work out what to do next.

I have to be honest, it has completely destroyed my confidence in Zero that they actually know how their own bikes work as I have never really had a satisfactory explanation as to what mechanism could cause this behaviour (Again, I have missed out a number of conversations in this explanation). Even if it is the tyres (which I don't believe), causing a critical failure in the front brake doesn't seem like the fail safe option.  Okay, disable the ABS but not the entire front brake.

I have sent emails to Zero directly but they just forward onto the dealer.

Does anyone on this forum have any ideas?

thanks,

Taf

One aspect is obvious from this problem and all others I've investigated, Zero has a nearly criminal attitude about Customer Service and resolving issues with their products.  AS in this instance they look everywhere but themselves for an "OUT", here the tire BS, rather than addressing the flaws in their products.  Bankruptcy is in Zero's future