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[azwillnj]

I recently bought a 2019 DS with 23 miles on it that had been kept in an air conditioned garage its entire life. The battery currently has 16 cycles on it and is currently at about 150 miles on the odometer. It just suddenly stopped charging with the onboard charger, this is what I'm seeing:

Plug in IEC connector
Display lights up and counts down
Charging light starts blinking
Contactor closes
Timer shows 0:00
After some time, 15 ish mins you can hear the bike try to restart the charging, the contactor opens and closes again but it still doesn't charge
Eventually it throws a check engine light and the red triangle with the ! starts blinking

I have a DeltaQ charger also. If I plug that in and cycle the key the bike immediately starts charging and has no problem hitting 100%

I connected to the MBB and did some debugging, I attached the terminal output with some notes on what I was doing.

I am going to try checking the charging fuse over the weekend. I can't believe something like this has happened already, this thing is basically new, any other suggestions?

[DonTom]

this thing is basically new, any other suggestions?

When it comes to OBC failures, they are very random. They can crap out at any time, new or not.


So more than likely, you need to replace your OBC. If that fuse is blown for the charger, you can bet the charger will blow a new fuse in less than a second. A high amperage fuse is not going to break or blow for no reason.


Besides, isn't that fuse in a cable and still used with your DeltaQ's which are working?   And isn't it difficult to get to? I cannot remember much about that fuse as I have never even had to look at it.


FWIW, the OBC is more efficient on 240 VAC than with 120 VAC. Less current, less heat. Perhaps there are less OBC issues when 240 VAC is mostly used, such as I normally use on my bikes.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[TheRan]

The charger shouldn't be dead from the usual issue (heat apparently) on such a new bike, and the fuse does indeed cover both the OBC and the accessory charge port ( https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Charging_Circuit_Fuse ). If the bike turns on when the charger is plugged in and the contactor closes then the control connector is likely okay (it's easy enough to unplug and reconnect at the rear of the charger so worth giving a go I guess), if the timer shows 0 then there's no power at all coming out of the charger. The power connector is cable tied together and jammed tightly between the motor and battery/storage compartment (on 7.2 bikes) so also shouldn't have managed to wiggle loose. I think the cable for this on the bike's side also joins to the accessory charging cable (they're at least in the same sleeving) so there's probably nothing loose or broken there. Could be a broken connection on the charger's side, unfortunately to test that it means unplugging that buried connector to get a multimeter in there.

[azwillnj]

Through my searching on the forums it seems like the fuse is a common problem which was the motivation for checking it. If it also handles the external Andersen connector then it seems like that's not the problem. The zip tie is still on the onboard's Andersen holding the connectors together so it didn't wiggle loose.

Could be a broken connection on the charger's side, unfortunately to test that it means unplugging that buried connector to get a multimeter in there.

I have removed about 3 of these at this point so I am pretty familiar with where the connector is. I will pop that off this weekend and probe it, I'm assuming I am looking for about 110v after charging starts and nothing if the charger is toast?

I am going to contact my dealer to see if there's anything they can do but I'm assuming the answer is no because it's so old. I do have another bike at work that I might be able to take the onboard charger from, it is currently in pieces with half a hybrid system installed on it. Might test that one just to make sure that's the issue, I think I can get it connected outside the bike to temporarily test.

[TheRan]

Through my searching on the forums it seems like the fuse is a common problem which was the motivation for checking it. If it also handles the external Andersen connector then it seems like that's not the problem. The zip tie is still on the onboard's Andersen holding the connectors together so it didn't wiggle loose.

Could be a broken connection on the charger's side, unfortunately to test that it means unplugging that buried connector to get a multimeter in there.

I have removed about 3 of these at this point so I am pretty familiar with where the connector is. I will pop that off this weekend and probe it, I'm assuming I am looking for about 110v after charging starts and nothing if the charger is toast?

I am going to contact my dealer to see if there's anything they can do but I'm assuming the answer is no because it's so old. I do have another bike at work that I might be able to take the onboard charger from, it is currently in pieces with half a hybrid system installed on it. Might test that one just to make sure that's the issue, I think I can get it connected outside the bike to temporarily test.

You should see 117V, it'll start off lower but only takes a few seconds to max out. If you see nothing there could still be the possibility that the charger is good, if my understanding is correct. There's only actually three pins the charger requires to function, charger attached, charger enable, and charger ground. The rest of the pins are for the canbus and those are required for keyed off charging so you know that part of your charger is working. If any of the other three connections are broken then that could cause the charger to output nothing (in theory, I never tried that configuration).

[azwillnj]

Grabbed the charger off the bike at work and hooked it up externally and it worked just fine. I cant believe a charger used this little could die, this does not instill much faith in this bike. Thankfully I got it basically for free.

[DonTom]

Grabbed the charger off the bike at work and hooked it up externally and it worked just fine. I cant believe a charger used this little could die, this does not instill much faith in this bike. Thankfully I got it basically for free.

It has little to do with how much it was used, (other than  problems caused by heat over time), like I said, very random. Those chargers are switching power supplies with countless parts that can short out. And usually when one part shorts out, it causes a chain reaction and many other parts to also short out.


No doubt some new OBCs blow out the first time turned on and others last 30 years. All of my Zero OBCs are still working perfectly since new in 2017. It's mostly luck of the draw. Unlikely to happen any time soon again, but it is certainly possible, even with a new OBC.


Can they be made more reliable?  Sure, the DeltaQs are more reliable. But they are also much less powerful, larger and can space out the parts better. And have better cooling with those fins and large heat sinks.  It's all a trade-off.


IMO, the OBC is reasonable for 1.4KW in such a small space where it gets no cooling. Just some people's luck with the OBC will be better than others.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[TheRan]

How did you test it, hook it up to the control connector on the bike? I don't know a great deal about how these chargers function but that seems weird to me that the communication side of the dead charger would still be working. Even if whatever killed it didn't take out that part of the circuitry I would have expected it to have enough brains to not attempt to close the contactor.

[azwillnj]

IMO, the OBC is reasonable for 1.4KW in such a small space where it gets no cooling. Just some people's luck with the OBC will be better than others.

It is quite a compact package, I'm sure the potting causes a bit of stress on the components contributing to these issues. Just seems like there are quite a bit of failures reported on here, still probably a very low number overall though.

How did you test it, hook it up to the control connector on the bike? I daon't know a great deal about how these chargers function but that seems weird to me that the communication side of the dead charger would still be working. Even if whatever killed it didn't take out that part of the circuitry I would have expected it to have enough brains to not attempt to close the contactor.

I reseated all the connectors on the broken one and tried again, that did nothing. Then i just plugged in the spare outside the bike and it immediately started charging. I didn't have my multimeter in the garage and didn't feel like walking into the basement to get it so I just plugged the spare in and it worked. I might hit the broken one with the multimeter and see if it's doing anything. I had to get a ball end 2.5mm off amazon to get to the screws on the IEC connector, that should be coming today.

I think my plan is to contact my dealer with all these results and see if I can get some kind of coverage on the broken obc, not holding my breath considering its a 2019 but I'm going to try.

Alex.

[TheRan]

You say you've removed a few chargers before, have they been busted ones as well and have they had the same failure mode (turns the bike on with the key in the off position, closes the contactor, but doesn't charge)?

[DonTom]

It is quite a compact package, I'm sure the potting causes a bit of stress on the components contributing to these issues. Just seems like there are quite a bit of failures reported on here, still probably a very low number overall though.

Yep. In any motorcycle forum, any make, you read about problems. Very few will post a message about how reliable their bike has been over the years. So every forum makes it look like there are countless common problems--with any brand of bike--even when they are fairly new bikes.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[azwillnj]

You say you've removed a few chargers before, have they been busted ones as well and have they had the same failure mode (turns the bike on with the key in the off position, closes the contactor, but doesn't charge)?

No, I have taken apart and put together the same 2 bikes a dozen times.