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[Tzah Mazuz]

Hi everyone, first post on the forums so be gentle.

Recently bought a Zero FX 2022 model.
So, I researched quite a bit on quick charger options but I made the mistake of not researching to the fullest.
I ended up ordering a charger from http://www.deligreenpower.com.

• I didn't want to use a charger controller so I requested for no CAN Bus, preset to 116.2V and 32A.
• I requested the input cable of the charger to be a Type H (Israeli Standard) home cable.
• 3. They even agreed to assemble the SBS75XBRN Anderson cable for the charger's output. (pictures are showing gray Anderson, but they will change it per my request)

They suggested the following charger: http://www.deligreenpower.com/deligreen-products/3kw48v96vCharger-en.html
(Side note: They brand it as "Deligreen Q2-3.3KW" but I saw the exact same charger from different companies branded with a different name, couldn't find datasheet for any of them online...)

I need help understanding if I will be able to use this charger on Type2 charging stations (I live in Israel)

• When I emailed them, they sent me a picture specifying all the cables going out from the charger (see attachment: "from_email"), the red notes that they marked on each cable shows that from the Output exit there is the pp and cp signals that should naturally connect to the Type2 PP CP pins.
• When they sent me pictures of my charger I noticed that they connected CC CP to the charger's SIGNAL exit (see attachment: "my_charger1") green and purple notes added by me

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_2_connector:
- CC is used by the China / GB/T 20234.2 standard
- PP is used by the EU / IEC 62196 Type 2 standard
This led me to start asking so many questions! I asked the supplier but I don't want to trust solely on his answers.
1. How can I know what charging standard is used by the charger? See https://www.vector.com/int/en/know-how/smart-charging/charging-standards/# for table of charging standards.
2. Is it safe to use a Type2 MALE inlet (not GB/T) and connect the exposed CC cable to the PP pin? Will it work as expected with EU charging stations?
3. If connecting the charger to Type2 inlet is not possible, will I be able to connect it to a GB/T female inlet and use a GB/T to Type2 adapter?
4. If GB/T to Type2 adapter is my only option, what exactly is it doing? besides switching the order of some of the pins (which can be done alone when the cable is not yet soldered/connected to any connector)

Can any of the more experienced members here can help me clear the dust on this?

[DonTom]

Hi everyone, first post on the forums so be gentle.

Recently bought a Zero FX 2022 model.
So, I researched quite a bit on quick charger options but I made the mistake of not researching to the fullest.
I ended up ordering a charger from http://www.deligreenpower.com.

• I didn't want to use a charger controller so I requested for no CAN Bus, preset to 116.2V and 32A.
• I requested the input cable of the charger to be a Type H (Israeli Standard) home cable.
• 3. They even agreed to assemble the SBS75XBRN Anderson cable for the charger's output. (pictures are showing gray Anderson, but they will change it per my request)

They suggested the following charger: http://www.deligreenpower.com/deligreen-products/3kw48v96vCharger-en.html
(Side note: They brand it as "Deligreen Q2-3.3KW" but I saw the exact same charger from different companies branded with a different name, couldn't find datasheet for any of them online...)

I need help understanding if I will be able to use this charger on Type2 charging stations (I live in Israel)

• When I emailed them, they sent me a picture specifying all the cables going out from the charger (see attachment: "from_email"), the red notes that they marked on each cable shows that from the Output exit there is the pp and cp signals that should naturally connect to the Type2 PP CP pins.
• When they sent me pictures of my charger I noticed that they connected CC CP to the charger's SIGNAL exit (see attachment: "my_charger1") green and purple notes added by me

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_2_connector:
- CC is used by the China / GB/T 20234.2 standard
- PP is used by the EU / IEC 62196 Type 2 standard
This led me to start asking so many questions! I asked the supplier but I don't want to trust solely on his answers.
1. How can I know what charging standard is used by the charger? See https://www.vector.com/int/en/know-how/smart-charging/charging-standards/# for table of charging standards.
2. Is it safe to use a Type2 MALE inlet (not GB/T) and connect the exposed CC cable to the PP pin? Will it work as expected with EU charging stations?
3. If connecting the charger to Type2 inlet is not possible, will I be able to connect it to a GB/T female inlet and use a GB/T to Type2 adapter?
4. If GB/T to Type2 adapter is my only option, what exactly is it doing? besides switching the order of some of the pins (which can be done alone when the cable is not yet soldered/connected to any connector)

Can any of the more experienced members here can help me clear the dust on this?

Welcome!


A type two J-1772 charging station is just a 240 VAC supply. Most of them will work with any EV charger, but there are rare exceptions. I recall one that I used in Georgia, USA that would not work with my setup because the charge station could detect that I was not using the pilot signal and it gave me an error message. It just would not work with my setup of external chargers that I had programmed by Elcon in Sacramento, CA. Mine also do not connect to the canbus and they shut off at 95% SOC and let the OBC take over from there. And that is where the charge drops down quite a bit anyway. It gives me time to disconnect the chargers and put them away as I am still charging with the OBC.


Most EV chargers will accept any voltage from around 90 VAC to around 250 VAC. Some will increase the output with the higher voltage, some will not. The Zero OBCs and Zero external chargers will not. But most external charger will, up to the rating of the charger. Common will be 3.3 KW at 240 VAC but half the wattages at 120 VAC, like the ones I use.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Specter]

Type 2 charging basically just means 240 volt AC input.  Whatever your bike will max out at amp wise, if the charger can supply it, it will.   Type 1 would be 115 / 120 volt charging.  FWIW most type 2 chargers WILL take the lower input of 115 from a L1 charging station, ie 115 plug IF you can plug it into your charger!!

The chargers 'input' typically, will accept a range of from say 95 volts up to 250 - 270 volts.  Generally the limiting factor on your charger is not going to be the volts but the amps it will allow to pass thru.  If your charger is good for 15 amps, that is ALL you will get from it is 15 amps!!  If you put 120 volts in it, you get your power out.. at 15 Amps,  if you put 240 volts into it, you get your power out AT 15 AMPS!  Whatever KW that happens to end up at.

You probably should wire up from your charger to your bike.  Make sure you got all that correct, because the bike will need to communicate with your charger.  Once you got that working, LEAVE IT ALONE, IT WORKS !!!   From there, your next worry is the power from the grid to your charging device.  That is actually the simple part.  You have 2 maybe 3 wires to work with!  Power / Power  or Power /Power / Neutral-Ground.  Many chargers don't care about the 'ground' that s more of an American worry with our split phase systems.  Put power to your charger and it should do what it needs to with it, talk to your bike, send it to your bike for your bike to use it to charge.

Now, as you go thru town you will see there are different plug types out there.  Nema 4/30  Nema 15/50 etc etc!  What I would suggest is make little jumper cords to keep with you with each different plug end on it, so when you get to a new type station, you just use the correct jumper to plug into their plug, reconfigure it so you plug your charger into the back end of your jumper cable, and viola, you got their power into your bike!

Yes I know this can sound complicated, and it's hard to put in words sometimes, but once you see how it looks you will see how easy it really is for you and there really is not a lot of 'magic' in it, just good wiring!

good luck!
Aaron

[TheRan]

Neither of those posts are particularly helpful to Tzah, that's not what he's asking and I assume he's aware that Type 2 is pretty much just a regular 230V AC output. The one difference to a regular mains outlet is that it is sometimes has a control signal, and he's asking what standard for that signal is used in his country.

Tzah, I would assume that it's all the same as the whole of the EU. China likes to have their own standards for many things and being such a large country they're not that bothered about outsiders, however if Israel allows people to travel freely into the country from the EU then it would make sense to make sure that people can charge their cars there when they do so. In specific reference to Israel I managed to find IEC 61851-1, if that's any help for further research. The Type 2 wiki page says that's used for 3 phase AC charging in North America using the Mennekes connector so I guess maybe that's the same as the EU.

I would be very surprised if there's not someone in Israel selling a Type 2 to Type H adapter already that you could use, it would be of use even for Zero owners using the stock charger and owners of cars like the Renault Twizy.

[Tzah Mazuz]

I would like to first thank for anyone whos taking the time to read and give any information on the topic, I appreciate it very much!

@TheRan - Sadly, I did search for a Type H socket to Mennekes Type 2 but there is nothing to be found... maybe my searching keywords weren't on spot but I doubt it.
I already accepted the fact I'll have to create such an adapter, hence comes my worries on connecting the right cables from the charger to the right pins on the type 2 male inlet.

From what I vaguely understand from all the answers is that in order to create such an adapter I can skip connecting anything to the PP and CP pins???
Israeli Type H socket has 3 pins, N(Neutral), L(Line/Power) and ⏚(Protective Ground).
I can easily create an adapter from a Type H socket to a Type 2 male inlet but the PP / CP pins will remain without any connection.

Type H Socket --> Type 2 (Male) Inlet
        N                             N
        L                             L1
        ⏚                             PE

Now we have a Single Phase Type H to a Single Phase Type 2 adapter.

However, the PP and CP pins remain untouched, the question here is:
1. Will the charger work with this adapter? the PP and CP communication pins are not mandatory?
2. Will I gain anything from connecting the CC cable on the charger (see my original message for pictures) to the PP pin on the Type 2 inlet?
3. Will I gain anything from connecting the CP cable on the charger to the CP pin on the Type 2 inlet?

[TheRan]

I also couldn't find an adapter to go from Mennekes to our UK mains plug, but I ordered a European one (Schuko) and switched out the socket myself. It was an easy job, just swapping over the L, N, and earth wires from one to the other. I don't know if there's any sort of signalling hardware in the adapter because I haven't disassembled it, and I've only used it with one station so far but it worked. I don't know enough to say for certain but I think it's only requires something as simple as putting a certain resistance across a couple pins.

As they're putting the Type H plug on the charger for you I'm assuming that the signalling connections aren't needed and the charger will just be enabled as soon as it receives power, either through programming or they'll put something on the signal pins so that it's always enabled.