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Author Topic: New chargers in UK without AC becoming common  (Read 562 times)

peterwarm

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New chargers in UK without AC becoming common
« on: October 14, 2023, 10:11:44 PM »

I use an app called "zapmap" to find quick chargers when travelling in the UK.
What I have suspected is now being borne out by studying the above app:

  • All the new chargers are DC only, CCS or CHAdeMO
  • No AC quick chargers appear to be going in.

Am I alone in wondering how I'm going to charge my SR/F in the future...?

pete, plymouth, UK
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Nov 2019 Blue SR/F  doesnt like rain - 2 rebuilds now Ok
Windscreen / 12kW Charge
Underseat 13A(UK) and Type2 cables
SRS pegs / keyless rear seat and tank hatch
... fairing......?

princec

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Re: New chargers in UK without AC becoming common
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2023, 10:23:37 PM »

Yeah, I think you are alone :) The 22kW 3-phase chargers spring up literally everywhere - random car parks, pubs, etc. - because they are so cheap to install and have rather lower power requirements. They're still building them, you just don't really hear much about it as they're so unintrusive. My real worry is if they start installing only 7kW chargers instead as 95% of cars can't take 22kW AC (most take 7, with an option to upgrade to 11).

By the time it's a problem though... I bet we'll all be riding bikes with DC capability anyway. Or dead.

Cas :)
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Specter

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Re: New chargers in UK without AC becoming common
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2023, 07:28:52 AM »

Another mindset to the AC charging.

It's a convenience, and advertising thing.
Oh hey look, come HERE to MY bar and eat lunch, I have charging for your electric  Autonomatron thingie.
They'll give you enough of a charge to cover what it cost you to get to them, and go to the next place on your destination.
THey'll be able to add this value added thing to their business for only 1k or so price tag, instead of probably a 10k price tag for a DC charger.

You won't have the parasites sitting there all day like you see in Starbucks, ordering the cheapest thing on the menu or a glass of water so they can hog the free WiFi or charger all day.  THIS is important to the business' mindset of the entire interaction.

prince - I don't think you'll have to worry too much on that, even if it's only 7k you should still be able to charge on it.  It may take a little longer but you won't get stranded.

22kw 3 phase, in the USA, the common is the 240 VAC Split Phase, typically about 7.2kw on the higher side as this can be run on the existing power w/o special conversion equipment or 3 dollar a foot 4 or 6 ga wire to power it.  I think 9.6 is about the most you will see on AC, as that is about the upper end of a Nema 15-50 plug which is probably what they'd put on the charger end of it, and within its 50 amp capacity.

Overall, as was stated, a LOT of AC chargers are going in, the business' putting them in though, just are not putting them into the databases for your app, my app etc.  They don't know to do so.  I have found a few AC chargers around me that were not on any apps, were word of mouth or stumble upon really.  When you find them, ask the owner if they can put it 'On The Map' or if you can do it for them, that way it's not more work they have to do.

One thing I have done, the CCS1 controller is a very small piece of equipment, even with the contactor if you get the proper one / build the proper one.  I don't NEED a bunch of fancy lights and bells and whistles to shine up and flash and glitzy when i am charging, just a simple interface to make it go.  I can control charge rate etc all that from my bike, no need to replicate it on the charger too. 
Make yourself a charging cord you can carry with you.  I did mine out of 12 ga wire just for robust-ness,  real simple CCS-1 plug on one end, plugs into a small box for the charger board, and the other end a (pick what is standard for your area) and have 3 or 4 pigtail conversions to whatever else might be there.  This way you can plug into any plug there is out there.  Most places, even if they don't have a charger, Do have a plug around, ask if you can plug in real fast and charge while you eat there or whatever.

For the cable, I use, well, not sure what the right name is, Lamp cord is probably inaccurate, but the flat wire.  You can get used appliances anywhere, goto the junk yard, the cables are all over the place and you can probably talk them into selling you the cord off an old washer / dryer / microwave, .. whatever it came off of for a buck or two, and voila, you have your plug AND wire, all pre done for you, now all you need to do is just splice it onto a male adapter to plop into your pigtail end.  The flat cable is a bit easier to store, and if you have to run it thru a doorway, lets the door still close, a box cover, lets the cover still close etc etc.  I'll try to remember to take a picture of how I ran mine out the door of my truck to bring power to my inverter / battery bank in the back seat area.

This may help relieve some of the worries of range anxiety as with a small setup, you KNOW you can charge anywhere there is AC power, and not have to worry about adapters, networks, internet connection etc etc. you will NOT get stranded.

Aaron
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Zelidar

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Re: New chargers in UK without AC becoming common
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2023, 02:55:53 PM »

All the new chargers are DC only, CCS or CHAdeMO. No AC quick chargers appear to be going in.

There must be something wrong with the app. In the gov.uk website (see below) as of January this year it says 19% are CCS charging stations. The rest being "slow charging stations", meaning AC. No way to turn these figures around in 9 months. In comparison with CCS, AC chargers are extremely easy and cheap to install.

Quote
As of 1 January 2023, there were 37,055 public electric vehicle charging devices installed in the UK, within which:
Charging Speed:
6,887 were rated “rapid” devices or above, this represents 19% of all charging devices
21,255 were rated “fast” chargers, this represents 57% of all charging devices
From https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/electric-vehicle-charging-device-statistics-january-2023/electric-vehicle-charging-device-statistics-january-2023

By the way, over here in Switzerland, a majority of these CCS big boxes have at least a standard type 2 plug for AC charging.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2023, 02:57:25 PM by Zelidar »
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peterwarm

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Re: New chargers in UK without AC becoming common
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2023, 04:05:45 PM »

Thats exactly it. The new service station chargers do not have that ac socket - they used to but not now.

I agree about not needing a huge power: Most slow chargers here in UK are rated at 7kW (The single phase rating) which isn't that bad, especially if I wire the 6kW charger into it.  However I like the three phase ac supplies (22kW here) as it will  give me my max of 11.7 kW(mostly!!)

What I an noting is that at service station outlets on UK motorways, they are upping the number of chargers dramatically, but seem to be replacing the old ones with ac plug with the new, CSS and/or CHamedo one without.  I just visited a brand new installation at a farm shop in Devon, UK which boasted 16 new chargers, but no ac sockets anywhere.  The Zapmap app correctly identified these and it was only as I read about them in a local rag that I looked to see them (not on my zap map as I filter for ac).

Ultimately you are all right: I need to spend some time sussing out local 22kW or even 7kW chargers on my favorite routes. I have to say I like eating and drinking whilst charging :-) so the motorway service stations were the obvious place to stop at first, but they are basically horrible places to be..

And the cable, absolutely yes. I've an underseat store with a 6m ac and a 1,5 m type 2 mennekes, Thanks to Remmie and others for the permanently inserted type 2 connector in the SRF. picys below. (trying not to crow)

Thansk all. pete
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Nov 2019 Blue SR/F  doesnt like rain - 2 rebuilds now Ok
Windscreen / 12kW Charge
Underseat 13A(UK) and Type2 cables
SRS pegs / keyless rear seat and tank hatch
... fairing......?

TheRan

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Re: New chargers in UK without AC becoming common
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2023, 05:50:25 PM »

I'm not surprised there's no regular mains sockets, it's not of much use to any cars other than Twizzys and there's not really any way to charge a payment for it. There is one car park near me that has one, I think it's a hold over from when they used to offer a detailing service there or for general maintenance use and just happens to be where they're also installed type 2 connections. Also charging is free there (just pay for parking) so there's no payment issue.
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peterwarm

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Re: New chargers in UK without AC becoming common
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2023, 09:20:06 PM »

forgot picys, hopefully attached??
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Nov 2019 Blue SR/F  doesnt like rain - 2 rebuilds now Ok
Windscreen / 12kW Charge
Underseat 13A(UK) and Type2 cables
SRS pegs / keyless rear seat and tank hatch
... fairing......?
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