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[Richard230]

I heard on the news yesterday that the California PUC is considering a rule that would require schools, factories, public facilities, large apartment complexes and other non-voter-owning properties (my editorial comment  ) that have a lot of solar photocell panels producing electricity during the day to be forced to sell (or was that give?) that power directly to their utility company and not use it to power their facilities. And then they would be required to buy back that same power at the utility company's rates. I wonder who thought up that big idea? I bet it was PG$E. 

During this news report, it was mentioned that a SF Bay Area school was considering installing solar panels on all of their building roofs to help power the school facilities during the day when the school is open. They said that would save them a lot of money and would help out their stressed budget. But if they had to buy back their own power, they would need to rethink their plan to install the photocell panels as it would not make any economic sense to spend money on the panels and then still not save any money on their power bill.

[Specter]

Yah, that sounds like something the dirtbag politicians in Commiefornia would think up.  Time for the caly folks to start star chambering some of them.

Most power companies that allow net metering, are running something similar now.  They may buy the power at what is called avoided cost.  Basically meaning the price the fuel would have cost, or less,  like 2 to 3 cents a kilowatt hour,  THEN turn right around and give it back to you at full retail, at whatever horrifical rate they charge you.

Don't net meter, fuck them, run your own grid.  You will NEED an inverter anyways, don't go with the micro's they won't do this but get a hybrid inverter that will run the load you got off your solar and batter storage but it is set to NOT SELL ANY back to them, no grid connect, they can't do shit.  When your batteries are depleted, or your system is not putting out enough for your demand then the inverter will start sipping grid power and blending it in with yours to keep your lights on.

What happens when you are making more power than you need is your inverter will just start cutting back on the power it's taking from the panels.  So it'd be like you having a 10 kw generator but only running it at half it's capacity.  yes you are not getting full ROI on the panels but you won't have to  deal with the bullshit of the power companies and local scumbags that way.

Power companies love trying to give the shaft  to folks who try to be self sufficient,  see that's another thing,  when the nazi's try to cut your power off saying there isn't enough to go around, you being your own power plant can just ignore it, you got your own power.

Unless they suck off enough of the politicians to pass additional laws, if you are not grid TIED, you do NOT have to comply with those type of rules.  Im not paralleled with you, not tied in with you  so don't play that game.

Aaron
PS Ive been doing solar since 1985, way before it was cool, and on the grid since 1999, so been at this a while here.

[Motoproponent]

I read a similar article, that is written in language to stoke fear and anger to drive engagement in the comments section, that listed this chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M515/K973/515973905.PDF decision as it's source.

It's a lot of legalese but the way I read it the utility still has to do the net metering but will do it in a credit/debit model. Meaning the user (the school in your example) would pay for the electricity they used but would be given a credit for power produced. It just separates the "being billed for the electricity" and "being paid for the electricity" into two separate transactions.

Still a goat rope but not as fucked as stealing electricity from customers as the article make it out to be.

I mean, If I were a fossil fuel company that wanted to discourage people from getting into PV's this bit of misinformation would be a great way to do it.

[Specter]

Motorproponent.  they problem is, they pretty much ARE stealing the power from you.

Ok, at noon you sell 65 kilowatts back to the power company.  They pay you 2 cents a kilowatt hour for it.  so you get 1.30 credit on your bill.

At 3 pm you BUY 65 kilowatts of electric from the power company,  they charge you 32 cents a kilowatt hour for it.  so you now PAY 20 dollars and 80 cents for the very same electricity you just sold to them, and only got 1.30 for !!  not 3 hours earlier.

if it was a credit card company or a loan shark charging you that much of an 'interest' or 'fee' they'd be arrested for extortion or loan sharking. or predatory lending etc etc.

But because it's a utility, raping you that bad is somehow ok now?

If you are going to do the solar thing, do it smart, spend the extra money, get a decent sized batter back up and self consume.  That way YOU use YOUR electricity at ALL HOURS YOU NEED IT!!  Not just when the sun is shining.   When the grid shits itself because they ran out of gas because they shut the plants down, YOU have your own grid, and run off your batteries until the next day when you recharge and get ready for the next days drama.

Aaron

[Motoproponent]

I see your point and agree that on site energy storage is the only real energy independence, but your example is skewed i think, probably to illustrate the math more clearly. The article leaves out the part that they do still pay for the electricty you generate. According to Nevada Solar Group and the PG&E Net Energy Metering pamphlet, you get credit for the power you generate at the same rate that you are charged to use it. But you only get credit towards your bill. If you make power during the peak times and use it during off peak there would be a benefit. You can get paid money, not just credit towards a bill, like an actual check you can cash at the bank at the end of the year if your annual generation is greater than your annual usage. That amount is 3 cents per kwh.


I just want to point out that a judges decision to allow a PUC to make the net metering two separate transactions gets turned into "Can you believe this crazy Commiefornia PG&E bullshit theyre trying to pull!!"

Its like when one person said they were dissappointed the holiday Starbucks Cups were just plain red it becomes "The Real Snowflakes rage about Starbuck's 'so called' war on Christmas!!!"

[Specter]

Ok, here's another tidbit they conveniently forgot to tell you.

You can apply it towards your bill at the same rate we charge you.
That is actually decent, most companies will not do that, they give you 'avoided costs' ie the 3 cents or so per kwh.
HOWEVER, not is all it seems.

Let's assume that rate is 25 cents for the sake of this discussion.

You give them 100 kw, they give you 25 dollars credit towards your bill.
3 hours later you USE that 100 kw, ok fine, they charge you 25 dollars, so it looks like it all balanced out and you have a zero bill.

Not so fast.  The power you sell to them that 25 dollar 'credit' they will report to the IRS as INCOME.  If you pass 599 dollars in a year, expect to see a 1099 for it.  You  now have to pay taxes on that income.  Oh, and NO you can NOT say, well I turned around and used it right back up!!  the IRS will NOT allow you to discount it back off that way.  If you try getting cute, expect an audit.

Your self consumption, the way your hook up is hooked makes ALL the difference in the world.  If they meter every watt coming from your array, you are fucked.  Now if you put the power in on YOUR side of the meters, it's used by you and nobody is the wiser.  That is the optimum way.  Many force you to meter it going out, even BEFORE it hits YOUR HOUSE.  This way they can claim the 'solar credits' for your power.  There is a huge scam going nation wide right now with companies bamboozling people to put solar on their houses, giving them like a 20 year loan on the shit, and then stealing the green credits for themselves.  What happens is when companies like amazon tell you, oh we are going green we care so much.  What they really mean is, well, we are buying regular electricity, BUT we will buy up credits for electricity that at the moment, was made green.  They then go out on the 'green market' look for these credits to pay the people for those certificates, so they can say, LOOK it was GREEN !!!  I used 50 megawatts of power, so I need to go and buy 50 megawatts of green certs to claim i am green.  even if those 50 MW were made at the dirtyest power plant in the world, it's GREEN !!!

it's a huge fucking scam and people don't have a clue, which is normal.  Of course anyone with any part of a functioning brain knows fully well, that ANY costs to manufacture / produce etc something ALWAYS gets passed to the customer, guess who pays for the billions of dollars that are lining their pockets?

Make your power, use your power, do NOT let anyone else claim or meter it.  Store your own power in your OWN storage facilities.  Give it a year or two and the dirty cunts in congress over there WILL figure out a way to try to tax you on that too, which is why what they don't know about you,  won't hurt YOU.

The 3 S' work here too.
Sunshine
Save it
Shut up.

Aaron