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[chisquare]

Hi everyone,

The German motorcycle journal Tourenfahrer known for its touring oriented in-depth tests features a decent comparison of the Energica Experia and the Zero DSR/X. For those following the contributions in this forum there is not much new information - with the exception of some power, speed, and consumption measurements. I thought you might be interested in that so here we go.

Cheers, Urs

[MVetter]

I used a translator and it looks like the very final entry is charge time from a domestic household power outlet. Why are the results measured in km? What does that mean?

[chisquare]

Strange indeed and probably a mistake. Minutes don't make sense either. Possibly 4.xx hours? There's no information on that in the text.

[most]

Thanks for sharing that!
Strange that the Experia seems to be superior in max power and also acceleration 60-100km/h and 100-140km/h (equal 0-100km/h).
I have the ExPee myself and was test riding the DSR/X two weeks ago - subjectively, the DSR/X had noticeably more power. I did not take any measurements; at the end it was a test ride while my ExPee got the break-in service.

Is it only me who thinks this is odd?


Well, Urs, the Tourenfahrer is not my standard reading - but now I have to get an issue! The current one, I assume?
EDIT: Found it. It‘s the May issue, also available as epaper download for 4.99EUR.

[Specter]

It may not have anything to do with your question, I may have misunderstood it but I have seen more than one place where they advertise charge rates in mph /kph  sometimes  mpm / kpm although i am not sure how useful miles of charge per minute is unless you are on a mega charger somewhere.  I think they state the rates in range, so that people can understand it better.  Ok i get 5 miles of range per minute so need 12 minutes of charge to get back home.. type thing, instead of making a normie have to figure out battery size, watt hours, or have to ask siri to think it out for them

Now that I am paying attention to chargers and stations and that stuff now, im noticing this stuff down here too

aaron

[Richard230]

Thanks for sharing that!
Strange that the Experia seems to be superior in max power and also acceleration 60-100km/h and 100-140km/h (equal 0-100km/h).
I have the ExPee myself and was test riding the DSR/X two weeks ago - subjectively, the DSR/X had noticeably more power. I did not take any measurements; at the end it was a test ride while my ExPee got the break-in service.

Is it only me who thinks this is odd?


Well, Urs, the Tourenfahrer is not my standard reading - but now I have to get an issue! The current one, I assume?
EDIT: Found it. It‘s the May issue, also available as epaper download for 4.99EUR.

Perhaps the reason that one bike accelerates at certain speeds faster than the other is due to final-drive gearing. The Zero may be geared lower than the Energica, resulting in better acceleration but a lower top speed.

[chisquare]

Strange that the Experia seems to be superior in max power and also acceleration 60-100km/h and 100-140km/h (equal 0-100km/h).
I have the ExPee myself and was test riding the DSR/X two weeks ago - subjectively, the DSR/X had noticeably more power.
Is it only me who thinks this is odd?

Since I haven't been able to drive either of them yet, I can't contribute any own experiences.

Perhaps the reason that one bike accelerates at certain speeds faster than the other is due to final-drive gearing. The Zero may be geared lower than the Energica, resulting in better acceleration but a lower top speed.

Yep, in the article it is mentioned that the DSR/X with its nominal torque of 225 Nm suffers from its longer transmission ratio resulting from the fact that the toothed belt is directly mounted on the motor output shaft. The Experia with nominally "only" 115 Nm has, thanks to its gearbox, a shorter transmission ratio and higher rpm. This seems to improve the usability of the power. OTOH, it is less efficient than the DSR/X by 15 to 20%. Moreover, the Zero reaches its maximum torque already at 1500 rpm which sounds great. However, it seems to decrease with higher rpm. No idea how this all translates in "felt" power and acceleration.

[Specter]

FWIW torque always decreases with RPM, that's the nature of motors.  Minimum rotation, maximum torque, maximum smoke. Maximum rotation, minimum torque.

Think of a motor as a rotating transformer with it's secondary shorted out.

Aaron

[chisquare]

Yes it does, but if the decrease already starts at a very low 1500 rpm this may be less than ideal. The power to speed diagram, which btw has a falsely labeled x axis, provides information on why the DSR/X has slightly worse pull-trough than the Experia.

[chisquare]

The DSR/X provides its max. power of 100 hp at 3650 rpm (https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2022/09/19/2023-zero-dsr-x-review-electric-adventure-motorcycle/amp/). This seems to be the case at 95 km/h. It gives its max. torque of 225 Nm at 1500 rpm which relates to a speed of about 40 km/h. This massive load of torque at low speed may be perceived as being even more powerful than the Experia.

Up to its max power at 95 km/h the DSR/X is head to head with the Experia (60-100 km/h: 1.6 sec for the Experia, 1.7 sec for the DSR/X). Above 95 k/m it has a decrease in torque and power which gives the Experia marginally better pull-through (100-140 km/h: 2.5 sec for the Experia and 3.0 for the DSR/X).

Not that this is all that relevant in practice. It's just trying to understand why @most perceived the DSR/X to be even more powerful than the Experia.

[Balrog]

I think the very high consumption figures for the Experia are strange. The aerodynamics compared to the DSR should be approx. the same unless the Experia is tested with the bags and top box and the DSR/X is not. The only major difference between the bikes is chain drive vs belt. I believe belt drive gives less loss of power transmitted, but still it should not explain more than a percent or two.

Anyone who knows?

[chisquare]

The second transmission related difference besides belt vs. chain is the (fixed ratio) gearbox of the Experia. As it uses straight gears (hence the whining noise) the loss will be limited and I doubt that this alone causes the difference of 15 to 20% in efficiency. But it certainly contributes.

[smithy]

Perhaps the reason that one bike accelerates at certain speeds faster than the other is due to final-drive gearing. The Zero may be geared lower than the Energica, resulting in better acceleration but a lower top speed.

Gearing makes little to no difference...it basically comes down to how many watts are used vs load. I fitted a 16t front sprocket on my Experia, stock is 15t...made absolutely no difference to acceleration or battery mileage...all it did was correct the speedo error.

Smithy.