Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[sharagan]

Hi Everyone,

I have a question to the more experienced ones here. Is this normal or was the Odometer tampered with on the motorcycle?
When I pull data through the serial connection from the motorcycle, the statistics menu shows me the KMs also shown on the dash (3893km), but the Sevcon show 6000 extra KMs (10267 kms).

****************************************
*               Statistics             *
****************************************
...

  - Odometer                  :  9870681 motor rev
                              :  3893 km
                              :  2419 miles

****************************************
*             Sevcon Data              *
****************************************

....

  SDOs
  - Access Level              :        4
  - Motor Temp Control Mode   :     0x01
  - Odometer Km               :  10267.0
  - Odometer Miles            :   6376.7

[TheRan]

I'm assuming you're not the original owner to be questioning if it was tampered with, is there a possibility the controller was replaced with a used one?

[sharagan]

so they should be the same?

...I am the original owner.

[TheRan]

I was thinking perhaps the controller has a separate odo than whatever the dash gets its info from (or perhaps it's stored straight on the dash).

If you're the original owner why are you assuming it was tampered with? Surely you must know whether you've done the mileage the dash is giving you and not an extra 6000 km.

[sharagan]

maybe I am asking the wrong question as I voiced my blunt assumption.

Let me please rephrase.

Should the reading be the same?

Do you guys have the same or different kms?

[Richard230]

Shortly after I bought my 2018 S, which was special ordered from the factory with a Power Tank and delivered to the dealer a few days before I picked it up, I took a look at the logs and they showed that the batteries had been activated a month before.

Perhaps the factory played around with your Sevcon controller before you received your bike? Or I suppose that it could have been plucked off of a bike that had been returned to the factory for some reason, such as having a defective battery. Or perhaps it was salvaged from a dealer demonstrator that could not be sold before the new models came out. 

[sharagan]

When I ordered it in July and had to wait 3 months for delivery I was told, that it is because it is being manufactured. After I received it, I learned, that it was presumably not the case. Many thinks led me to believe that it is very strange. For example the manufacturing date on the frame, a warranty period ending 6 months before it should. The dealer and HQ ignored my comments and simply corrected the warranty period.

So if this discrepancy in kilometers on the sevcon and the dash is not on all the bikes, it is leading me towards my original assumption. And I know, that dealers have the means to change the Odometer reading. It was mentioned here in the forum already, even though in that case it was to correct an error.

If it is not a used bike sold as a new bike then the other assumption is that they use salvaged or used components at the plant? This is also not very professional and does not add to the already bad image I have of the brand.

[sharagan]

Could somebody please check their MBB for the stats and sevcon data for a comparison?

Thanks in advance.

[Richard230]

When I bought my 2010 Electric Motorsport GPR-S in December 2009, it was supposed to be new, but had 280 miles on the odometer. The retail dealer had just registered the bike with the DMV, but when I inquired why it had so many miles on it, the dealer asked the (local) manufacturer about that and the CEO said that was because they had done extensive testing of the bike before delivering it to the shop.    But then he drove a van to the dealership, picked up the bike, slapped a new VIN and build date sticker over the previous one and returned it to the dealership. Then they had to return to the DMV and re-register it as a new bike with a new VIN. (Apparently the DMV could care less about that unusual turn of events.  ) The retail dealer was not happy, but I bought it anyway as at that time I was really invested in buying the bike. If I knew then what I know now.....   

[Auriga]

I think it's far more likely that the sevcon odometer is not calculating correctly. I don't think the sevcon odo value is used for anything, the Zero components get motor shaft revolutions and use a formula to determine the odometer. All bikes with the same controller get the same sevcon FW, regardless of wheel size and gear ratio, which are critical to know when calculating distance traveled.

I would note down the odo values, ride it a short distance(maybe 5 mi) and then record the values again. See if the values changed the same amount. If not, you have the answer.

What was the manufacturing date on the frame? The frame manufactured date probably isn't the same as the shipped date, supply chain delays have made that more probable too. If Zero orders bike frames in one or two bulk orders, that date could be way off the actual manufactured date. Zero HQ will tell you the date when the bike rolled off the line if you call and ask politely. Not sure if you're in the US or not, but if you aren't I've heard it takes 1-2 months to get something shipped via boat now.

Finally, warranty start date occurs when the bike is registered by the dealer as sold to a customer with Zero, or (for a demo) when the bike was manufactured. Zero HQ can tell you if your bike was a demo, and when their records say the warranty starts and ends. What told you when your warranty date expired? If it's any dealer paperwork, then Zero HQ would never have seen it, and only cares what their system says anyway.

I get that you're concerned, but I suspect it's unwarranted. Zero assumes that people won't be reading their serial data, and some things are half baked/not accurate/require additional context. The other thing that comes to mind is the battery cycles number and the state of health value, both of which are not representative or possibly not working. It'd be nice if they told us though.

[sharagan]

Hi Auriga,

thank you very much for the detailed information. The other factors that made me suspicious are the following. I ordered it in July 2020, was told in August that it is on its way to Europe and received it in September. The import certificate shows an import date of March 2020. I had some warranty claims and talked to HQ, they told me on the phone the bike was registered with the dealer since March. That warranty claim was rejected so I went to a different dealer for a 2nd opinion. They warned me, that the warranty ends in March. Coincidence? ...I went back to my dealer and asked about the origin and the warranty, they claimed their access to the Zero dealer website is not working so they can not check. I travelled 500kms to their dealership unannounced to confront them. There was another 3 months of back and forth where all of a sudden HQ did not want to give me the end date and the dealer kept silent. Finally in September I received an email with the info, that the warranty end date was an entry error and corrected in the system. I found this odometer reading only now and it got me thinking again. The manufacturing date on the side of the swingarm is January 2020.

[Auriga]

The story provided sounds plausible, the supply chain in 2020 was shot to hell and people were in different states of lockdown. Import paperwork is probably done before shipment too. Of course we have no real way to know. I'd do the odo rate of change test. It is a manual process to register a bike, and it does let you backdate it, so I could see some dealer putting in the wrong date and then HQ having to verify and correct it.

The biggest thing I've heard is that Zero can't produce bikes fast enough to meet demand, it's very hard to get bikes shipped overseas, and the backlog is rumored to be in the hundreds of units. I don't think they'd be crazy enough to jump through all these hoops for one bike.

In the end, we're talking about a difference of a couple months, if it rides well I wouldn't worry. Let us know how the test goes.

[sharagan]

makes sense, thanks for the insight. There were problems at the beginning, which the majority are already taken care of. The only thing that pops up regularly is a BMS Isolation Fault and Low Chassis Isolation of 5KOhms to cell 1 and cell 2 during winter storage strangly enough.

I will do the test and report back with the result.

[sharagan]

test done, all ok

KM increase on the statistics page 7km
KM increase on Sevcon page 18.3km

Information from Auriga confirmed.

Thanks for the support.

[gt13013]

That is an interesting discussion.
Note that
10267 / 3893 = 2.6 (total kms)
18.3 / 7 = 2.6 (your today's test)
There is just a 2.6 error factor in the Sevcon recording !

When they changed the controler of my FXS they noticed a discrepancy between the different odometers of my bike and they decided to synchronize them. The real odo was 17327 km, the bad one was 19406 km, and they have reset both to the bad one. Consequently they added 2079 false kms to my bike.
I hope for you that if you have your bike repaired at 10000 km, you will not get it back with 26000 kms