Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[angrygirafe]

It… sort of shuts the station off? It doesn’t shut off the station immediately. You’ll hear the station click off, and them click back on a few seconds later. The station might show charging at less than 100w, and a few seconds later it clicks off again. It’ll do that cycle for a few minutes and then the station goes into standby and the bike dash goes blank.

I sat with it and monitored it through the app for an attempted charge back in march. 60F. The battery charged at up to 56amps, but battery temp never exceeded 84F according to the app. It still shut off after almost 30 mins and on 64% SOC.

I figured it’s a problem with the charge tank, but I hate going to dealers for service. Took my Yamaha in for standard maintenance last November and it still doesn’t work after they did… whatever it is they do.

Do you have a high power granny cable? If so, does it work okay with your charge tank? 

Is your charge tank 6 KW?

Have you tried different company J-1772 stations?  Does your charge tank ever work normally?  How do you charge at home?

BTW, when you have the charge tank, can you still use the OBC to get another 1.3 KW or is the charge tank already using it?

FWIW, I also try to avoid dealers as much as I can.

-Don-  Reno, NV

Thank you for the questIons!

I had to look up granny charging cables; I do not have one. I have a 20amp circuit in the garage and use that with the on board charger at home

I don’t know for a fact that it’s a 6kW charge tank. I bought it used, privately. It was supposed to be factory installed, and given the current I see it pull, I’m in trouble if it’s not 6kW. Is there a way to check?

I have tried ChargePoint and SemaConnect. Multiple ChargePoints in different locations. We have two SemaConnects at work, and one of them was recently replaced. But the ChargeTank never worked well. Made the ride back from Tuscon complicated. The only time I’ve achieved 100% SOC was restarting the charging multiple times. It normally stops after increasing by 20-25% in cool weather, and 5-10% in the current 100+ weather. Restarting charging always has diminished returns, something like half of what the previous charge provided.

I haven’t tried using the onboard with the charge tank. Our parking garage attendants block off the outlets to keep the car people from charging all day.

I’ll probably take it to the dealer since level 1 charging is unreliable in this heat. Just gotta convince myself it’ll be better than last time.

[DonTom]

Thank you for the questIons!

I had to look up granny charging cables; I do not have one. I have a 20amp circuit in the garage and use that with the on board charger at home

I don’t know for a fact that it’s a 6kW charge tank. I bought it used, privately. It was supposed to be factory installed, and given the current I see it pull, I’m in trouble if it’s not 6kW. Is there a way to check?

I have tried ChargePoint and SemaConnect. Multiple ChargePoints in different locations. We have two SemaConnects at work, and one of them was recently replaced. But the ChargeTank never worked well. Made the ride back from Tuscon complicated. The only time I’ve achieved 100% SOC was restarting the charging multiple times. It normally stops after increasing by 20-25% in cool weather, and 5-10% in the current 100+ weather. Restarting charging always has diminished returns, something like half of what the previous charge provided.

I haven’t tried using the onboard with the charge tank. Our parking garage attendants block off the outlets to keep the car people from charging all day.

I’ll probably take it to the dealer since level 1 charging is unreliable in this heat. Just gotta convince myself it’ll be better than last time.

If you charged at 56 amps DC to the battery, you must have the 6KW charge tank.  Say 103 volts (about 60% SOC)times 56 amps=5,768 watts. 


All Zero charging in unreliable in the heat, but that doesn't explain your problem on cooler days.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Kill3rT0fu]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a question concerning heat.
WHat's the main bottleneck for charging in the heat? Is it the charger getting too hot, or the battery? Would 3 diginows suffer the heat bottleneck as badly as one 6kw charger? (my thinking is 3 diginows can spread the workload out)

[Richard230]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a question concerning heat.
WHat's the main bottleneck for charging in the heat? Is it the charger getting too hot, or the battery? Would 3 diginows suffer the heat bottleneck as badly as one 6kw charger? (my thinking is 3 diginows can spread the workload out)

What I have heard over the years is that the issue is the battery getting too hot and the to protect the battery the BMS shuts down the charging current. Once that happens it takes a long time for the battery to cool off as it is just a big enclosed heat-sink and has no active cooling system. Until the battery finally cools off enough that the BMS will allow charging to commence again, you are starting to grow a 5-O'clock shadow. 

[scottwstevenson]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a question concerning heat.
WHat's the main bottleneck for charging in the heat? Is it the charger getting too hot, or the battery? Would 3 diginows suffer the heat bottleneck as badly as one 6kw charger? (my thinking is 3 diginows can spread the workload out)

What I have heard over the years is that the issue is the battery getting too hot and the to protect the battery the BMS shuts down the charging current. Once that happens it takes a long time for the battery to cool off as it is just a big enclosed heat-sink and has no active cooling system. Until the battery finally cools off enough that the BMS will allow charging to commence again, you are starting to grow a 5-O'clock shadow. 

What I've gathered (from a post I'm not finding how - it was in one of DonTom's recent charging threads) is the the proximity of the onboard charger to the battery can heat the battery up substantially more (esp. for the relative charge provided) than and external charger (numbers were posted in the post I'm referring to), and the ChargeTank avoids this by sitting above the battery for better heat dissipation.

I've got two external chargers I use (EVtricity) and I *think* - I'll need more testing and have to pay attention that those have perhaps overheated in the past (being the bottleneck, so to speak) perhaps before the BMS went into protection mode and slowed / cut off charging.   

It's also possible that when I've had problems, the battery was getting hot and my chargers, because they're just trying to pull at their respective 3.3kw or 6.6 kW rate rather than coordinating with the battery, may also cause the BMS to jump ship even when a slower rate of charging would have been acceptable.  I would presume this would be an advantage of a charge tank, as it would communicate with the BMS to adjust charging as battery temp became an issue, whereas the BMS just balks () at an attempted charge rate that is beyond acceptable.

This is a lot of guesswork here and I wasn't looking at the situation in the past with these ideas in mind.

Next time I'm on a long trip, I'm going to attempt a full on charge (6.6kW plus 3.3kW (2nd changer) + ~1.5kW from the onboard) and if charging stops, I'll just go with the 6.6kW charger to see if a slower charge rate (without underbelly heating from the OBC) is possible.

-Scott

[DonTom]

What I've gathered (from a post I'm not finding how - it was in one of DonTom's recent charging threads)

Reply number 20 here.  By HotRob in this same thread.

is the the proximity of the onboard charger to the battery can heat the battery up substantially more (esp. for the relative charge provided) than and external charger (numbers were posted in the post I'm referring to), and the ChargeTank avoids this by sitting above the battery for better heat dissipation.

Next time I am riding on very hot day, I will no longer use the OBC and see if there is a difference in temp and battery charging. I wish I knew to try that last time in the 100F/ 38C heat.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[scottwstevenson]

What I've gathered (from a post I'm not finding how - it was in one of DonTom's recent charging threads)

Reply number 20 here.  By HotRob in this same thread.

is the the proximity of the onboard charger to the battery can heat the battery up substantially more (esp. for the relative charge provided) than and external charger (numbers were posted in the post I'm referring to), and the ChargeTank avoids this by sitting above the battery for better heat dissipation.

Next time I am riding on very hot day, I will no longer use the OBC and see if there is a difference in temp and battery charging. I wish I knew to try that last time in the 100F/ 38C heat.

-Don-  Reno, NV

I plan on doing the same!  (Thanks for finding that post.) 

If hot, a rule of thumb from here on out could be: OBC when charging at home, overnight.  External chargers otherwise.   

(I think I mentioned too, that I tried out plugging in the OBC at home when there was a temp error (charging was not proceeding) but just leaving the bike there. Eventually, still plugged in, the battery cooled and the OBC was able to do it's job.  That's a nice feature (to be able to plug in and leave it to cool down rather than checking back regularly to start charging only after the battery's cooled down) when there's no hurry in charging back up.

-S

[DonTom]

(I think I mentioned too, that I tried out plugging in the OBC at home when there was a temp error (charging was not proceeding) but just leaving the bike there. Eventually, still plugged in, the battery cooled and the OBC was able to do it's job.  That's a nice feature (to be able to plug in and leave it to cool down rather than checking back regularly to start charging only after the battery's cooled down) when there's no hurry in charging back up.

Yeah, but what happened to me is it started to charge again on its own, got 10 more SOC, over-heated and shut down again. This happened twice to me. Perhaps without the OBC, it will still overheat, but just may do 15 SOC at a time instead of ten or whatever. And it could take just as long either way to gain the 15 SOC. But is worth a try, perhaps it could make it all the way to full under some conditions, with the OBC being off making the difference.


If the OBC really does heat up the battery enough to make a difference, then,  IMO, there is a poor design issue there.


OTOH, that could be a good idea where very cold.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Is it a poor design when it extends how much you can charge in winter?

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Is it a poor design when it extends how much you can charge in winter?

-Crissa

For me, that is useless.  I mainly ride ICE bikes when it is cold.


-Don-  Cold Springs Valley, NV

[Crissa]

For me, that is useless.  I mainly ride ICE bikes when it is cold.

So lucky for you to have a selection of bikes and not worry about the cold limiting the ability to charge or start the bike.

-Crissa

[scottwstevenson]

(I think I mentioned too, that I tried out plugging in the OBC at home when there was a temp error (charging was not proceeding) but just leaving the bike there. Eventually, still plugged in, the battery cooled and the OBC was able to do it's job.  That's a nice feature (to be able to plug in and leave it to cool down rather than checking back regularly to start charging only after the battery's cooled down) when there's no hurry in charging back up.

Yeah, but what happened to me is it started to charge again on its own, got 10 more SOC, over-heated and shut down again. This happened twice to me. Perhaps without the OBC, it will still overheat, but just may do 15 SOC at a time instead of ten or whatever. And it could take just as long either way to gain the 15 SOC. But is worth a try, perhaps it could make it all the way to full under some conditions, with the OBC being off making the difference.


If the OBC really does heat up the battery enough to make a difference, then,  IMO, there is a poor design issue there.


OTOH, that could be a good idea where very cold.


-Don-  Reno, NV

Yes, agreed on the above.

For me, when arriving home at the end of the day, it seemed that that volleying between charging, overheating, cooling down, charging initiated again was dampened rapidly enough d/t the "cooler" conditions (shaded, <80?F, etc.) parked in my carport at home to fully recharge in a <12 hr (so maybe an hour or two of waiting time d/t the need to cool).  "Leave it and forget it" viable.

In the middle of hot day at an unshaded charging station - definitely not a first like strategy of course!

-S

[electrictwowheeler]

Richard mentioned the heat wave in Portland OR. On Sunday the 27th ( 115 F  daytime high in Portland ) I rode my 2020 SR/S Premium to Tillamook on the coast for a few days of camping to avoid the 115 degree temps which is a record temp for Portland. It's 75 miles total with a 1500 ft pass in the Coast Range and the last 30 miles or so are downhill to Tillamook. The speed limit on the highway is 55 so never got over 60mph. I left Portland at 10:00am with a 90 F ambient temp and rolled into Tillamook with 90 F ambient showing on the dash and plugged into a level 2 EVSE in direct sunlight and was charging at the normal 5.8 KW to 100 % while I had lunch. Regen was normal coming down off the 1500 ft pass and charging was normal. I didn't check the batt temp but now have it on my dash. So at least at temps of 90F or below all is ok on the SR/S.
As far as regen with a full battery goes, if regen was allowed when the cells are fully charged and you went down a big hill wouldn't the BMS shut the bike down because of over voltage? My Vectrix, my Brammo Empulse and my Chevy Spark all loose regen for a short time when fully charged. Even so it always surprises me for a second when it happens.

[Richard230]

My 2014S would charge to 117 V. When fully charged the bike would disable regen until voltage dropped a bit after a mile of riding. Then the regen would return and act normally for the rest of the ride. Other than being a bit of a surprise when the regen turns off and you had to brake harder when coming to a stop, it never was an issue for me. On my 2018S that doesn't happen because the BMS cuts off charging at 115V.