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[Richard230]

I saw this new motorcycle concept this morning and it's styling kind of reminded me of the old Brammo Enertia.  Regarding its idea of replacing the hand throttle with bicycle pedals, that seems to me to be a solution in search of a problem. Especially on a vehicle that can travel at highway speeds.   
https://electricmotorcycles.news/erockit-made-in-germany/

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

eRockit has been around for several years. I knew about them when I had my 2013 DS. Perhaps before.

The sticker price is the problem, in addition to the licensing for its power and speed. They’re really avoiding showing the price still, but it was well in excess of $30k when I last checked, more like $50k.

I don’t know what goes into that price, but it just doesn’t compete properly with other high performance ebikes now, and not with electric motorcycles, either.

[TheRan]

It's an incredibly stupid and dangerous design and anyone who pays €12k for one is an idiot. I do wonder in which countries it's actually road legal, it's for sure over the power and speed limits for a moped in the UK (and possibly the rest of the EU) and I don't know if you can have a motorcycle without a regular throttle.

Slightly off topic, this is the bike that I saw uses the Zero dash that I was talking about in a different thread, about how Zero isn't the OEM.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Slightly off topic, this is the bike that I saw uses the Zero dash that I was talking about in a different thread, about how Zero isn't the OEM.

Yes, I've noticed that as well. Let's try to identify the original equipment, then, so that we can maintain these better as owners.

[Crissa]

Why would pedals be more dangerous than a throttle?  You have the same brakes,

But getting it licensed and insured would be a pain.

-Crissa

[TheRan]

The first issue would be accidentally applying the throttle by pedalling, either by bumping them or instinctively trying to get your preferred foot forward. On a bicycle you can pedal forward without applying a driving force as long as you do it slower, with this thing it's going to detect the cranks moving and drive the motor. The second issue is trying to modulate the throttle when leaned over, scraping pegs on a motorcycle usually isn't too bad but a pedal strike can be enough to cause a crash. Lastly, just modulating the throttle in general is going to be finicky, at least with a bicycle you have some feedback to control how fast you're going but with this thing if you pedal just a bit too quickly you'll be breaking speed limits, flying off the road when you get to a corner, or slamming into the back of cars.

I have a fair amount of cycling experience and I've ridden fairly powerful electrically assisted bikes and there's no way I'd feel safe on that thing, I can't imagine the carnage that a less experienced person would cause.

[Crissa]

Have you used a pedal assist?  They have resistance.  They're pretty hard to accidentally throttle.  And you can't WoT.

It's really quite neat.  You feel like you're cybernetic or something.

-Crissa

[TheRan]

I have. The eRockit is going to be a bit different to a regular assisted bike as you're not driving the rear wheel directly so it's going to depend on how well they managed the resistance at the cranks, ideally it would use some sort of variable mechanism. If they don't then it's going to be a fine balance between not making it so easy that you end up going too fast, and not so hard that it's a pig to put in enough force to get it to accelerate at a decent rate. I'm also curious as to whether it translates pedal force into torque at the motor, or cadence to motor speed.

The fact that it could be designed to behave in either of two rather different ways means it's not going to be as intuitive to ride as they think, like riding a regular push bike. It's really just a gimmick with no advantage over just sticking a regular throttle on the bars, other than a small amount of additional exercise (and if that's a big concern just get a regular e-bike).

[Crissa]

There's lots of level 3 bikes where the pedal is basically abstracted because of the gearing involved, I assume from the consistency of the ones I tried that it's a solved problem.

-Crissa

[TheRan]

I don't know what a level 3 bike is but I'm guessing I haven't tried one. Everything I've tried has had regular bicycle gearing, just with an assistance motor in the bottom bracket or a hub motor, so you've got a familiar connection from the pedals to the rear wheel.

[Crissa]

https://currentebikes.com/ebike-classes-california/

Although a few of the Class-3 bikes don't hew very closely to the guidelines.  That's where those 50-mph ones came from.

Basically, when your foot slows, the bike slows.  You have to keep pedaling to keep it going.  It's almost impossible to get it to go without knowing what you're doing... It's kinda like the opposite of a motorcycle, no torque, all top speed.

-Crissa

[TheRan]

Oh right, it's a speed classification. In that case I have ridden (and owned) one. The thing is with them is you need to put a fair amount of force on the pedal to get them going both due to the lower torque and the high gearing (you could stick it in a low gear but it's generally not needed on an assisted bike), I'm just concerned with the eRockit that it might have so much torque and not much resistance at the cranks that it might not take much effort at all to spin them and then start the bike moving.

Imagine if someone stopped at a light and only put one foot down, the other foot still on the pedal and it being forward. If they accidentally put some weight on that foot for any reason is it going to start moving forward? With a regular bicycle or even an e-bike you might roll forward like 10cm, this thing might shoot forward a meter and then you've got to try and catch a 120kg before it falls.

[princec]

Nobody will buy them anyway - they are a daft invention. This is like the pre-Cambrian explosion... all sorts of plainly ridiculous life-forms popping into existence... and then disappearing again because they're just too stupid to live.

Cas

[Richard230]

Nobody will buy them anyway - they are a daft invention. This is like the pre-Cambrian explosion... all sorts of plainly ridiculous life-forms popping into existence... and then disappearing again because they're just too stupid to live.

Cas

Good point and good comparison.   

[Crissa]

They're certainly too expensive, but... The powerful e-bikes feel amazing to ride.

I'm not a very exercise-y person and it was just really thrilling to feel muscle-ower multiplied like that; it feels so very much more a part of you because of that motion.

-Crissa