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[enaef]

In Germany they are doing 'it' (real recycling) already - look at that:



Thank you all for contributing to this interesting discussion!
I will ask the dealers (post 1) if they can give me more information regarding their claim ...

[Crissa]

Rocks haven't been mixed with plastics and stabilizers, so it can take slot of energy to break them apart.  Taking apart a car pack is labor intensive.  So there are costs.

Tesla is using old cells in their industrial powerwalls, for instance.

-Crissa

[enaef]

Taking apart a car pack is labor intensive.  So there are costs.

True. However, one could also say that mining is too cheap. And also it's not a bad thing having some manual labour work as automation puts too many workers into unemployment.
And then again I guess it's a matter of time until this taking apart will also be automated, by automated recognition of the battery-type, or the materials and by using industrial roboters for taking apart the pack.
The capacity of 3000 tons per year is still in a pilot facility, as far as I understand. However, at the moment the big amounts of Li-Ion-Batteries are not here yet. They still are working reliably in EVs - and that's a good thing which makes us happy  .
After a bunch of years, when all the battery packs really have ended their life (may be after their semi-retirement for example in a home, used as buffer for a photovoltaic system), and when a big part of cars and motorcycles will use these batteries in order to reach the climate goals (hopefully even in the US- with greetings from Paris  ) - scaling effects probably will make things cheaper anyway.

[Curt]

In Germany they are doing 'it' (real recycling) already - look at that

Now you're talking! The cool parts are that shredding isn't labor intensive, shredding is done before shipment to avoid shipping hazard, residual battery power is used for shredding, shredders are self-contained shipping containers, 96% of all material is recovered at a central location that should be able to scale, and chemical reactions are used for recovery rather than melting.

[enaef]

The topic caught me … and I did some more research regarding carbon-footprint in production of modern Li-Ion-batteries.

You may have heard of the Swedish (NOT Swiss) Study in 2017, which claimed, that the production of each kWh battery-capacity uses 150-200kg CO2.
The same Swedish institute did a new study (published Nov. 2019: https://www.ivl.se/download/18.14d7b12e16e3c5c36271070/1574923989017/C444.pdf ) which corrects this amount to 61-106 kg. Page 27 of the paper:

"The apparent decrease in total GWP from the 2017 report (150-200kg CO2-eq/kWh battery capacity) to 61-106kg CO2-eq/kWh battery capacity is partly due to that this report includes battery production with nearly fossil free electricity use which is the main reason for the decrease in the lowest value. The lowering of the high value is mainly due to improved efficiency in cell production. Another reason for a decrease is that the emissions from recycling are not included in the new range. They were about 15kg CO2-eq/kWh battery capacity in the 2017 report."

Using the mean for production (83.5 kg) plus 15 kg for recycling (total 98.5) x 14.4 kWh (SR/F) battery = 1418.4 kg CO2.
My Carbon footprint (annual emission) determined by https://www.myclimate.org/ is 4.5 t. Offset this annual emissions in carbon offset projects in developing and newly industrialising countries costs 129 $, half of it in Swiss carbon offset projects its 402 $.
Taking these numbers and using them for my SR/F that gives 40 $ (developing countries) or 125 $ (half of it in Switzerland).

I wonder, how big the carbon footprint is for the rest of the bike. Anybody an idea where/how to calculate that? The farer away from the production facility in California the bigger the footprint; so in Switzerland it will be relatively high.

As I start to ride the bike mainly for pleasure, may be after a while for my 50 km commute, I plan to compensate the footprint. In the city where I live electricity is produced exclusively by renewable sources (mainly hydroelectric power stations and some solar energy) which makes the footprint relatively low for that part of motorcycling …

[Fran K]

I have no real intrest in this carbon footprint business.  I own numerous acres with trees does that give me some sort of feel good?  Watch the video and it says the crushing is done in an inert gas environment.  Liquify air to make inert gas, right?  At least nitrogen and argon.

What is this discussion doing in the Zero section anywaty?  I do recent posts when I come to this site.

[Curt]

I have no real intrest in this carbon footprint business.

I'm with you. My only concern is that we don't throw a bunch of chemicals in a hole in the ground.
- don't waste the metals by permanently sequestering them
- don't contaminate the aquifers with leaking chemicals or underground reactions
- reduce cost of new batteries using recycled materials

What is this discussion doing in the Zero section anywaty?  I do recent posts when I come to this site.

I always do "unread posts", so for me, there may as well not be separate sections.

[enaef]

@ Fran K
@ Curt

When I wrote my last post, for a moment I thought about being correct in staying in this section.
As it is the thread I started, as carbon footprint is (at least for me) like 'heavy metals' also a question of environmental concern and as it is (for me) still about the SR/F I stayed in the thread.

But I can see your point and will move this to the section 'General Discussion'. I don't want to get  on sb's nerves.

[Rangerx52]

Aluminum is a heavy metal. Any aluminum in the battery assembly?

[Curt]

Aluminum is a heavy metal. Any aluminum in the battery assembly?

The term "heavy metal" is abused, undefinable and useless without context because it means different things to every field.