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[Richard230]

My motorcycle riding experience and usage is not typical. I started riding a motor scooter in 1962 because I needed to get to college from home and there was no public transportation system that would get me there.  I wanted to learn how to drive a car, but unfortunately my dad was an insurance adjuster and would not permit me to learn how to drive using his 1957 Ford sedan and I also didn't have enough money to afford a used car.  But he did agree to let me spend $300 to buy a new Vespa scooter to get to college and figure out how to ride it in our backyard. So I grew up thinking of scooters and motorcycles being transportation first and recreation second.  Now my Zero has replaced my car for most of my local trips as it doesn't require any warmup and very little maintenance, plus recharging the bike has only raised my home electric bill about $15 a month, much less than even one fill up (at $3.60 a gallon) of my car's 12 gallon fuel tank.

The heaviest motorcycle that I have ever owned was a 1992 BMW K100RS. A real freeway flyer, but not a lot of fun at low speeds and tight back roads.  Since then I have tried to keep motorcycle weights down. On most motorcycles their weights seem to not be a factor while riding at anything above a walking pace, but I have such a crowded two-car garage, what with a car and six motorcycles in there that I have to do a lot of pushing bikes around, including pushing them up my driveway to get them parked facing toward the door.  At age 75, it is really getting more difficult for me to push stuff around and I am always worried about a bike falling over and not being able to pick it up, so that is the only reason why the Energica bikes' weights cause me concern.  20 years ago, their weight wouldn't have bothered me.

[DonTom]

I have such a crowded two-car garage, what with a car and six motorcycles in there that I have to do a lot of pushing bikes around, including pushing them up my driveway to get them parked facing toward the door.  At age 75, it is really getting more difficult for me to push stuff around and I am always worried about a bike falling over and not being able to pick it up, so that is the only reason why the Energica bikes' weights cause me concern. 

I think you will find the Energicas the easiest to deal with in that situation, as I have. Let the bike do the work. It will only move at 1.75 MPH at WOT in slow forward and slow reverse and a press of a button changes directions. I just wish all bikes would have such.

Did any of your BMWs have a reverse? I know the older BMW LT did. Even put itself on the centerstand.  My Energica is my first bike to have a reverse.  The reverse has been proven to be a lot more handy than I expected.

BTW, the slow forward is not necessary on the Zeros as they have very slow throttle response in Eco mode. But the Energica doesn't. It wants to fly when barely touching  the throttle.  The slow forward is needed on the Energicas but not the Zeros, other than the Energica limits the speed on low forward to 1.75 MPH, making it a bit safer. Being able to easily switch from slow forward to slow reverse is very handy in tight spots such as in crowded  garages.

BTW, I have a buddy, George, who is a retired motorcycle cop from NYC. He is the same age as you (either 75 or 76). He will only ride heavy bikes. He doesn't like the feel of light bikes. He has ridden my Zeros and he said they felt like toys. He has also ridden my Energica and really liked it.  I  prefer  to have both, light as well as heavy bikes. He normally rides his 2017 Harley Road-Glide Special (My 2017  Harley is the is the even heavier Road Glide Ultra). I used to hate every Harley I have tried. After I rode his Harley, I loved it and I purchased mine a few days later. Heavy bikes have their place also, even for us older guys. But you do NOT want to deal with such in your garage, just like I don't here. But if it had a slow electric reverse and slow forward, I would not mind at all bringing it here.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[wavelet]

BTW, "city" to Energica is around 40 MPH.  To my surprise, I was told "highway" was around 75 MPH. Range could be better than I expected at 75 MPH on the 21.5 KWH Battery.  But OTOH, Energica says my SS9 range is  80 miles at 75 MPH and I don't buy that, unless all downhill on a warm day. One thing I forgot to ask is the expected range when just getting to a 0 SOC. I do know it's more than a couple of miles.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

Don, what actual range numbers did they quote for the 21kWh models at 75 MPH? Is there a difference between the faired Ego+ and the unfaired Ribelle &  EsseEsse9+, as one would expect?

[DonTom]

Don, what actual range numbers did they quote for the 21kWh models at 75 MPH? Is there a difference between the faired Ego+ and the unfaired Ribelle &  EsseEsse9+, as one would expect?

No difference between 21.5KWH  models in range as shown in print:
All three show as:
21.5 KHH max / 18.9 nom. battery:

city         : 249 miles
combined: 143 miles
highway  : 112 miles


I was told city means 40 MPH and freeway means 75 MPH.

However, I don't buy it. Because on my 13.4 / 11.7 battery it shows the range as:

city 124 miles
combined 100 miles
highway 80 miles

I don't buy that my Esse Esse 9 can go 80 miles at 75 MPH.

Energica specs are not from an independent source, which costs about the same as a new Energica. Has to be done a certain way. I heard Zero specs are done by an independent source and are therefore more accurate.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[wavelet]

^^
Interesting that the range for the Ego+ is no different.
As for the source question, the primary purpose of publishing performance/economy/range specs has always been to be able to compare between vehicle models rather than get  accurate numbers, which after all depend greatly on the specific conditions. That means that a standardized, detailed, and published test procedure is a requirement. A vendor can always publish additional numbers if they think they reflect "real-world" results better.

This is all the more relevant for motorcycles, where the form factor & weight of the rider, luggage, accessories etc. affect things a lot more than they would a car.

Zero does say in the specs for their "combined" range that they measure it according to SAE J2982, but don't give full details for the other cases (the SAE doc isn't available for free AFAIK).
IIRC, the SAE standard is done on a dyno, so wouldn't necessarily very realistic w.r.t. aerodynamics, although they use some computed formulas to compensate.

I don't know if there's a comparable EU standard that Energica could use, but I suspect not -- Zero quotes the SAE standard on its EU website as well, and if there were an EU standard, they'dmost like use it. 

[togo]

So did you guys test ride or just look and take pictures?

I rode an ego.  I found the leg positioncramped, the suspension harsh, and the drivetrain whiny loud.

They look good though, especially the 20kWh with fast dc charging.

[DonTom]

I rode an ego.  I found the leg positioncramped, the suspension harsh, and the drivetrain whiny loud.

They look good though, especially the 20kWh with fast dc charging.

Yeah, I love the looks of the red Ego, but I will take the comfort over the looks any day. Besides, I also think my Blue Esse Esse 9 looks great, but I do like the Ego look even more so.

You should try the Esse Esse 9.  I think the Ego is more of a race track bike and the SS9 a lot more practical for normal roads. While the Ego is faster, the SS9 will be more than fast enough for most people. Too fast for me, so I don't usually ride in the sport mode.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[togo]

 
> You should try the Esse Esse 9.  I think the Ego is more of a race track bike and the SS9 a lot more practical for normal roads. While the Ego is faster, the SS9 will be more than fast enough for most people. Too fast for me, so I don't usually ride in the sport mode.

Yeah, I think I'll try the SS9+ 20kwh when it's available to test ride

Sure wish a very forward comfortable position long range fast charger electric was available for people who want to eat miles, not get the faster lap times.  NM4 position.  I dream of converting mine to electric drivetrain but am wary of the time investment.