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[DonTom]

Don- my 5.5 hp (which clearly isn't drawing that much power otherwise it'd trip the 20 amp breaker) wet vac doesn't trip this GFCI outlet.  Neither does a big blender, nor a coffee grinder.  I don't have anything else that I can think of that would be electrically "noisy" to throw at it, but I'm satisfied that the outlet isn't to blame.  This outlet only trips when there's a ground fault.  Personally, I think the acceptable level of current flowing down the ground wire is 0.000 amps.  It's tripping from the Zero due to some current flowing down the ground wire, and it happens every single time I plug the bike in and almost always within the first 5 seconds once the actual charging starts.  Whether it's just a weak induced current, or something more dangerous, I dunno.  I could have and should have taken a few more readings before dropping it off.  In any event, it's at the dealer and since I bought the bike literally 2 days ago it had best not be too long of a wait to get it back... neither Zero nor the dealer will like the result if that happens.-k

All those other items you're trying might not have the same characteristics (frequency of the noise, etc) as your Zero.

So many of our Zeros have tripped GFI (It's even mentioned here in the Unofficial Service Manual) that I doubt they all have an AC leakage  problem to ground. It's most likely something in the basic design of our bikes that causes some of our GFI's to trip.

FWIW, my GFI  does NOT trip at this house  when on my SR. But it trips EVERY time (within a few minutes) when I use the 120 VAC GFI outlet at the Colfax train station.  Same bike, same extension cord, dry weather, etc.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Electric Cowboy]

Tripping a GFCI is a problem. If you do anything other than fix or replace your charger, you are asking for trouble.

Saftey 3rd is a joke for the race track, not the home. I just want to make this clear. Fix or replace the charger, don't work around safety, working around safety translates to danger.

Now you know. The decision is yours.

[DonTom]

Tripping a GFCI is a problem. If you do anything other than fix or replace your charger, you are asking for trouble.

Saftey 3rd is a joke for the race track, not the home. I just want to make this clear. Fix or replace the charger, don't work around safety, working around safety translates to danger.

Now you know. The decision is yours.

I really see no realistic safety issue. One would have to try very hard to get shocked from  a charging Zero, even  without GFCI.  The frame is grounded to the AC plug (when not bypassed) so that makes the frame safe to any other ground when the stock 3 prong plug is used.

Now with GFCI and bike's ground bypassed, what happens?   . . .

If one comes in contact between  the hot terminal of the AC plug and any ground,  the GFCI will trip. If the bike is involved here or NOT. The GFCI is in the OUTLET, not in the bike.

IOW,  the GFCI will STILL WORK NORMALLY. The GFCI is in the OUTLET, not the bike, and the GFCI in the outlet  is NOT bypassed in ANY way. Even if the bike is not grounded. GFCI does NOT even require a ground to work normally. Unless  when we are the ground path to the hot wire, which causes it to trip, as it should.

Get between hot and ground of a working GFCI outlet and it  will trip no matter what you do at your bike, frame of bike grounded or not.

So where is the real safety issue here, since bypassing the frame of the bike has NO effect on the outlet's ground fault protection?

The GFCI  nuisance tripping is simply that, a nuisance.  Since ungrounding the bike has no effect on the GFCI at the outlet, the GFCI will still work normally, even if you somehow try your very best  to get zapped at the bike. For us to try to  get the shock, with the bike involved or not,  it will cause the differential voltage to trip the GFCI at the outlet.

The bike has no GFCI. It's all done in the outlet. And as long as we do not modify the outlet itself, the GFCI will still work as it should, no matter what we do to our bikes.

I think the very best argument one can make on the opposite side is that having both, the bike grounded via the outlet and the GFCI outlet is a type of double protection. IOW, if the GFCI is broken and will not trip (which can and does sometimes happen) the bike frame is at least still grounded. 

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Electric Cowboy]

@Don I respectfully disagree with your saftey reccomendations to the OP Keeto whos skillset we do not know.

If he is having trouble with the calex he should replace it. It is the #1 replaced part on a Zero and the only part that I think is not very good on a Zero.

If your #1 part being replaced by the manufacturer is truipping GFCI you need to replace it as that charger is going to fail on you at the most inopportune time.

Brian T Rice did a post mortum on his own DEAD calex while I was bolting up one of the very original Super Charger v2.5 onto his bike. Brian is a no nonsense guy and bases what he says on facts and datum more than most people. You know what his result was? The calex caught on fire inside its potting and went out before exiting the charger case...

If the charger is having an issue, take it to the dealer and get it replaced ASAP. Don't risk it.

[DonTom]

@Don I respectfully disagree with your saftey reccomendations to the OP Keeto whos skillset we do not know.

If he is having trouble with the calex he should replace it. It is the #1 replaced part on a Zero and the only part that I think is not very good on a Zero.

If your #1 part being replaced by the manufacturer is truipping GFCI you need to replace it as that charger is going to fail on you at the most inopportune time.

Brian T Rice did a post mortum on his own DEAD calex while I was bolting up one of the very original Super Charger v2.5 onto his bike. Brian is a no nonsense guy and bases what he says on facts and datum more than most people. You know what his result was? The calex caught on fire inside its potting and went out before exiting the charger case...

If the charger is having an issue, take it to the dealer and get it replaced ASAP. Don't risk it.

If his is the only bikes that is tripping the same GF that other Zero's do not trip, then I agree with what you're saying. We do not yet have all the facts. It will be interesting to see what the dealer finds.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[DonTom]

I spoke with Zero technical support, and they said it's not supposed to trip a GFCI.  They said to take it back to the dealer for a diagnosis and repair, so that's what I did.  Now I've gotta twiddle my thumbs until I get the bike back.  No loaner possible, unfortunately.  It's a bit frustrating to pay for it and then not be able to ride it... but these things happen and I'll do my best to be patient.   

-k

If you're still around this forum, I would like to know what the final outcome was. Does your bike no longer trip GFCI outlets?  If so, what did they do?

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Electric Cowboy]

I second the desire to know the end result as this is good data for forum members.

[keeto]

Sorry for the zombie thread, but I haven't been around the forum at all since I initially posted about this issue.

The dealer where I bought the bike (Fort Walton Beach FL) didn't know how to diagnose the issue.  As a matter of fact, they didn't even understand the definition of "ground fault".  Heh.

I discussed this issue with Zero, but they were also less than helpful.  I like the bike a lot.  It's got some major warts, but riding it is a blast and it fills the need I have for an electric motorcycle.  That all said... I won't be buying another motorcycle from Zero due to the way they refused to help me out with this issue.  And I steer people away from Zero because of my experience with their crappy customer service.

Charging the bike still trips some (but not all) GFI outlets.  I carry around a cheater plug for outlets that are problematic.  Not an ideal solution, but it's cheap and easy and works for now.  At some point I plan to replace the charger.

-keeto

[DonTom]

Sorry for the zombie thread, but I haven't been around the forum at all since I initially posted about this issue.

The dealer where I bought the bike (Fort Walton Beach FL) didn't know how to diagnose the issue.  As a matter of fact, they didn't even understand the definition of "ground fault".  Heh.

I discussed this issue with Zero, but they were also less than helpful.  I like the bike a lot.  It's got some major warts, but riding it is a blast and it fills the need I have for an electric motorcycle.  That all said... I won't be buying another motorcycle from Zero due to the way they refused to help me out with this issue.  And I steer people away from Zero because of my experience with their crappy customer service.

Charging the bike still trips some (but not all) GFI outlets.  I carry around a cheater plug for outlets that are problematic.  Not an ideal solution, but it's cheap and easy and works for now.  At some point I plan to replace the charger.

-keeto

Thanks for the update. Unfortunately, I am not a bit surprised by any of that. But IMO, a slight unbalance to ground just isn't a big deal. My bike  had tripped ground faults as well, and I simply assume it some very minor issue in the design of the onboard charger. It simply means one side of the AC line has a little more high resistance (or capacitive reactance) to ground on it than the other.  IOW, the current on the return is slightly less than going in on the hot, proving a path to ground.

I would only be concerned if it instantly tripped every GFI outlet tried, which then could be showing a close to a dead short to the frame.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[MrBlc]

As an electrician i would agree with Brandon here.. Never joke with security.. Shit will burn if ignored.
Having said that, we've also seen over time that the tolerance levels of GFCI devices vary wildly..
They can trip on anything between 12 and 28 mA. All of which are within requirements..
AC/DC units all have a certain degree of noise sent to the ground wire.. This again depends on the quality of the circuit and therefore can in some cases make a very sensitive GFCI device trip while others dont..

If fault tripping is experienced a few places it could be a sign of deterioration within the electrical circuit, but it could also be oversensitive GFCI..
If the frequency of places increase it's worth investing time in testing more closely.

Speaking of GFCI devices and AC/DC setups.. in EVSE setups there's a requirement (in .eu at least) that these circuits must have proper DC filtering or GFCI type B protection installed. This because we KNOW that large DC circuits will feedback very high frequency noise up the feed and create a problem with type A devices.
So.. Unprotected circuits are no joke either.. This is systems you really should not cheap out on the protection of..