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[SebfromBE]

Hi,

Did anybody heard of any conversion of a Zero monolith being converted (for instance after bike crash) into stationary energy storage?
= > It is quite compact
=> And has ~ almost the perfect battery size!

So of course you would need a PV + battery  hybrid inverter... But apart of that? Would it need major rework/interfacing with the BMS or else?

That would be a nice way to give second life to these packs!

[Starpower]

It’s been done, often with a reconfiguration of the cells. Not worth the trouble or expense. As an solar contractor and living off grid for 40 years I can say impractical. The cost of equipment (balance of system) does not justify taking on storage of limited remaining life. Besides in most stationary apps size/weight does not have high importance.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I have wondered about this since 2013; it is an intriguing possibility, even if as noted above it's a sub-optimal use case. I would like to see a more detailed analysis presented, especially comparing it to other options.

[Starpower]

If you had an early 48V pack it would be easy and inexpensive as you can use cheap off the shelf common chargers including solar and inverters. Same goes for a reconfiguration of the higher voltage ones but I have no knowledge of how the BMS can be integrated to protect each cell. Does each pouch cell have its own BMS? I’ve not looked into how Zero is handling this.

Lots of folks have done this with used Prius cells - the common 18650 cells each with a micro BMS. Most EV’s use these “flashlight” cells by the 1000’s

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Zero’s BMS operates on the entire pack but can charge each cell/level in the stack separately to balance. This uses charging input when charging is low typically during a constant voltage taper. The pack does not offer bus connections to those intermediate cells, just BMS low current connections.

[laschrocket]

I've done a similar thing a couple of years ago using a Siemens UPS built for 4s lead-acid batteries so about 96v nominal, if I remember correct the model I used is this; http://www.arifidenza.it/Public/data/ik1xpp/201093133641_a.pdf Siemens Masterguard A Series 3000, which could deliver a decent sine wave at about 2500w continuous. What I also discovered was that the Zero DS 2013 I was using were fine emptying the battery to the inverter instead of the motor controller as long as you gave it a spin (had the rear wheel hanging of the ground) at least once/hour, if not it went in to some kind of standby mode. I used it a couple of times running a small venue with soundsystem, lights, backline and control booth and did not have any problems really.

The picture is from when I first tried it out with some restive dummy loads, the UPS was connected straight to the dc-link at the motor-controller terminals. The nice thing about that specific UPS, more than being one of the few that can handle the Zero voltage span, is that it has quite small transformers, probably high switching speed, so without the default battery it's quite light for the amount of power compared to other UPS's.

Even tried charging a Nissan Leaf a few times with this setup

(FYI Posted this also in this thread http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=8981.msg76991#msg76991)

[Doug S]

As I posted in the other thread, I stand in awe at pysen's achievement. There are talkers and do-ers in this world, and you're the only person I'm aware of who's done what many of us have talked about.

I said I couldn't really think of any reason to do it, but I've been thinking since then. I used to own a cabin up in the mountains, whose electrical needs were pretty modest...lights, an igniter on the propane range and heater, tv, and an electric blanket. I could have ridden my bike to the base of the mountains, charged up at a nearby J1772 station, plugged in at the cabin, and spent a weekend with no generator noise, fumes or need to carry gasoline in the car.

There's a concert venue near me that doesn't sell coffee or hot drinks of any sort, because the concession area has no power and they don't allow generators. This would be perfect, and in spring and fall when it gets chilly, I bet they'd do mad business.

Or mobile displays/shows/events like pysen did. Hell, I bet even a lot of remote venues would allow you to bring the bike inside since it has no exhaust or oil to leak.

[laschrocket]

Thanks Wasn't so much of an achievement though, pretty much plug and play, it's a shame I haven't shared the findings more earlier on. This was 4 years ago, mostly connected to this environment/off grid festival:
https://www.skogsfesten.se/musikkonstworkshops2018

Just had the bike about 6 months before it got stolen, but been trying to do similar things with other electric vehicles, last year we used the 400v bus at a Nissan Leaf connected to a large 48v bank in the back of the stage via 3*3kw Eltek chargers (which worked fine with dc input), then used 48v UPS's to invert to 230v ac for the venue, this setup had less efficiency but allowed for hot-swapping (so we could drain the car, then have some time to go and charge it up again of site). Stumbled upon the stolen Zero a few weeks by coincidence, hopefully I can buy it back from the insurance company and do some more experiments again, battery probably in really bad shape though, seemed to had been sitting outdoors uncharged for 3,5 years
I actually also used the Zero-UPS setup in my cottage a couple of times and powered a induction stove, if I remember correctly I could run 2 of 4 zones at about half power. Electricity to heat is usually quite tricky and maybe not the best idea if there are options, consumes a lot;

Sorry for hijacking this thread and sliding OT.

[Doug S]

Thanks Wasn't so much of an achievement though, pretty much plug and play, it's a shame I haven't shared the findings more earlier on.

We'll have to agree to disagree about that. Easy in concept maybe, but you did the work and got it functioning.

I actually also used the Zero-UPS setup in my cottage a couple of times and powered a induction stove, if I remember correctly I could run 2 of 4 zones at about half power. Electricity to heat is usually quite tricky and maybe not the best idea if there are options, consumes a lot;

Sorry for hijacking this thread and sliding OT.

Doesn't seem like a hijack to me, this is about using the Zero as a storage battery, which is exactly what you did. And I agree about heating electrically, that's why I rigged my cabin up for propane range and space heater, as well as a propane water heater. (I recall now that the space heater had a push-button piezoelectric starter, and the water heater had a battery-powered igniter, so it was only the range that needed line power to start.) It's still hard to beat gas for heating stuff, even if you have to pay delivery charges in a remote area. A couple hundred gallons of propane heats a lot of stuff.

Okay, now that was a hijack. Sorry, OP.

[ashnazg]

I *think* the video MVetter showed me a while back would qualify here... ?  Someone was running garden tools via the Anderson AUX on a Zero.

[togo]

> I *think* the video MVetter showed me a while back would qualify here... ?  Someone was running garden tools via the Anderson AUX on a Zero.

Electric chainsaw, I think it was. 

Many AC devices with modern power supplies can run off DC instead of AC, given many SMPS circuits are rectifier followed by buck.  Indeed, I've found many power supplies are made to operate in both north america (100-130VAC) and europe (200-240VAC) are of this type.  Read the label, and if you try it, it's at your own risk.