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Author Topic: Engine does not stop  (Read 833 times)

gt13013

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Engine does not stop
« on: August 14, 2018, 06:07:44 AM »
Today I made my FXS fall on the right side while parking on a rocky place.
I was  stopped when the bike fell.
1) But as soon as the bike fell, the rear wheel started to spin fast, while the throttle grip was cut off.
2) I immediately turned off the engine at the circuit breaker (or "motor stop switch") at the right side of the handlebar, but the engine continued to run.
The engine stopped only when I turned off the ignition key.

Points 1) and 2) seem abnormal to me.
Can someone give an explanation?
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Gimli1844

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Re: Engine does not stop
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2018, 07:15:38 AM »
On my 2013 S the kill switch stop working and would not turn off the engine.  Except the one time I left it in the off position and I hit a bump and my bike shut off on me. When I took my bike in for the battery recall zero replaced the switch and then it was fine.   My bike did fall on its right side too before the kill switch died.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Engine does not stop
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2018, 03:48:20 AM »
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 02:19:44 AM by BrianTRice »
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gt13013

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Re: Engine does not stop
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2018, 04:29:58 AM »
Thanks
I am presently on holidays. I will try to diagnose the problem later...
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DonTom

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Re: Engine does not stop
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2018, 05:14:37 AM »
Quote from: gt13013 on August 14, 2018, 06:07:44 AM
Today I made my FXS fall on the right side while parking on a rocky place.
I was  stopped when the bike fell.
1) But as soon as the bike fell, the rear wheel started to spin fast, while the throttle grip was cut off.
2) I immediately turned off the engine at the circuit breaker (or "motor stop switch") at the right side of the handlebar, but the engine continued to run.
The engine stopped only when I turned off the ignition key.

Points 1) and 2) seem abnormal to me.
Can someone give an explanation?
This reminds me of what happened to Shadow in this forum. After a ride on a bumpy road, his kill switch would not work when the motor ran out of control. Very dangerous. But the problem was inside the motor itself, which was replaced under warranty.

IMO, it seems rather stupid and dangerous for a kill switch to work by data instead of really shutting the entire bike down, as the ignition key does.

-Don-  Cottonwood, AZ
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gt13013

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Re: Engine does not stop
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2018, 04:37:28 AM »
For information, here is the log :

Code: [Select]
04121     08/13/2018 16:44:49   Riding                     PackTemp: h 28C, l 28C, PackSOC: 65%, Vpack:103.683V, MotAmps:  91, BattAmps:  18, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  59C, CtrlTemp:  29C, AmbTemp:  21C, MotRPM: 602, Odo: 7448km
 04122     08/13/2018 16:45:49   Riding                     PackTemp: h 28C, l 28C, PackSOC: 64%, Vpack:103.119V, MotAmps:  84, BattAmps:  26, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  62C, CtrlTemp:  30C, AmbTemp:  21C, MotRPM: 971, Odo: 7448km
 04123     08/13/2018 16:46:49   Riding                     PackTemp: h 28C, l 28C, PackSOC: 63%, Vpack:102.975V, MotAmps:  71, BattAmps:  26, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  64C, CtrlTemp:  31C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:1144, Odo: 7449km
 04124     08/13/2018 16:47:49   Riding                     PackTemp: h 28C, l 28C, PackSOC: 62%, Vpack:102.813V, MotAmps:  67, BattAmps:  29, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  62C, CtrlTemp:  30C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:1409, Odo: 7449km
 04125     08/13/2018 16:48:49   Riding                     PackTemp: h 28C, l 28C, PackSOC: 61%, Vpack: 102.66V, MotAmps:  78, BattAmps:  31, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  61C, CtrlTemp:  30C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:1246, Odo: 7450km
 04126     08/13/2018 16:49:49   Riding                     PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 60%, Vpack:103.437V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   2, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  59C, CtrlTemp:  29C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:1231, Odo: 7450km
 04127     08/13/2018 16:49:49   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    505 A (97%), MinCell: 3669mV, MaxPackTemp: 28C
 04128     08/13/2018 16:50:49   Riding                     PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:102.088V, MotAmps:  77, BattAmps:  32, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  60C, CtrlTemp:  30C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:1299, Odo: 7450km
 04129     08/13/2018 16:50:49   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    487 A (93%), MinCell: 3636mV, MaxPackTemp: 28C
 04130     08/13/2018 16:51:49   Riding                     PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:102.782V, MotAmps:  29, BattAmps:  13, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  60C, CtrlTemp:  29C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:1206, Odo: 7451km
 04131     08/13/2018 16:51:49   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    492 A (94%), MinCell: 3660mV, MaxPackTemp: 28C
 04132     08/13/2018 16:52:49   Riding                     PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.054V, MotAmps:  46, BattAmps:  10, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  56C, CtrlTemp:  27C, AmbTemp:  19C, MotRPM: 609, Odo: 7451km
 04133     08/13/2018 16:52:49   Batt Dischg Cur Limited    498 A (95%), MinCell: 3676mV, MaxPackTemp: 28C
 04134     08/13/2018 16:53:34   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode   
 04135     08/13/2018 16:53:34   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect   
 04136     08/13/2018 16:53:37   ABS SILA reporting an error   

>>>>>>>>   I think that the problem occurred here    >>>>>>>>>

 04137     08/13/2018 16:53:40   Power Off                  Key Switch
 04138     08/13/2018 16:53:40   Sevcon Turned Off   
 04139     08/13/2018 16:53:40   Module 00                  vmod: 103.311V, batt curr: 1A
 04140     08/13/2018 16:53:40   Module 01                  vmod: 103.329V, batt curr: 1A
 04141     08/13/2018 16:53:40   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2   
 04142     08/13/2018 16:53:40   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3   
 04143                       0   DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External   
 04144                       0   Power On                   Key Switch
 04145                       0   Key On   
 04146                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Stopped mode   
 04147                       0   Module 00                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 04148                       0   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 04149                       0   DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External   
 04150                       0   Power On                   Key Switch
 04151                       0   Key On   
 04152                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Stopped mode   
 04153                       0   Module 00                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 04154                       0   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 04155                       0   Module 01 CAN Link Up   
 04156                       0   Module 01                  serial: 16sg2639,  vmod: 103.636V
 04157     08/13/2018 16:42:28   Module 00 CAN Link Up   
 04158     08/13/2018 16:42:28   Module 00                  serial: 16sg2754,  vmod: 103.588V
 04159     08/13/2018 16:54:59   Sevcon Turned On   
 04160     08/13/2018 16:55:00   CAN1 ACK error. count=1   
 04161     08/13/2018 16:55:04   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 04162     08/13/2018 16:55:04   Sevcon not ready to be checked for 11kW, Disabling Bike until a battery has connected and we can check the sevcon   
 04163     08/13/2018 16:55:05   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 04164     08/13/2018 16:55:05   Module 00                  vmod: 103.592 maxsys: 103.632 minsys: 103.59 diff: 0.042 vcap: 91.812 prechg: 88%
 04165     08/13/2018 16:55:05   Module 01                  vmod: 103.634 maxsys: 103.632 minsys: 103.59 diff: 0.042 vcap: 91.812 prechg: 88%
 04166     08/13/2018 16:55:05   Sevcon Not setup for 11kW about to set   
 04167     08/13/2018 16:55:06   Succesfully configured controller as 11kW   
 04168     08/13/2018 16:55:06   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed   
 04169     08/13/2018 16:55:06   DEBUG: Module 01 Contactor is now Closed   
 04170     08/13/2018 16:55:06   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2   
 04171     08/13/2018 16:55:06   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3   
 04172     08/13/2018 16:55:09   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.621V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  51C, CtrlTemp:  26C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 7452km
 04173     08/13/2018 16:56:09   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack: 103.65V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  54C, CtrlTemp:  26C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 7452km
 04174     08/13/2018 16:57:09   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.669V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  53C, CtrlTemp:  26C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 7452km
 04175     08/13/2018 16:58:09   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.677V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  52C, CtrlTemp:  25C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 7452km
 04176     08/13/2018 16:59:09   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.682V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  51C, CtrlTemp:  25C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 7452km
 04177     08/13/2018 16:59:27   Power Off                  Key Switch
 04178     08/13/2018 16:59:27   Sevcon Turned Off   
 04179     08/13/2018 16:59:27   Module 00                  vmod: 103.662V, batt curr: 0A
 04180     08/13/2018 16:59:27   Module 01                  vmod: 103.685V, batt curr: 0A
 04181     08/13/2018 16:59:27   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2   
 04182     08/13/2018 16:59:27   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3   
 04183                       0   DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External   
 04184                       0   Power On                   Key Switch
 04185                       0   Key On   
 04186                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Stopped mode   
 04187                       0   Module 00                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 04188                       0   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 04189                       0   Module 00 CAN Link Up   
 04190                       0   Module 00                  serial: 16sg2754,  vmod: 103.756V
 04191     08/13/2018 17:11:18   Module 01                  serial: 16sg2639,  vmod: 103.794V
 04192     08/13/2018 17:11:18   Module 01 CAN Link Up   
 04193     08/13/2018 17:11:18   Sevcon Turned On   
 04194     08/13/2018 17:11:19   CAN1 ACK error. count=1   
 04195     08/13/2018 17:11:23   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 04196     08/13/2018 17:11:23   Sevcon not ready to be checked for 11kW, Disabling Bike until a battery has connected and we can check the sevcon   
 04197     08/13/2018 17:11:24   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 04198     08/13/2018 17:11:24   Module 00                  vmod: 103.752 maxsys: 103.785 minsys: 103.734 diff: 0.051 vcap: 91.812 prechg: 88%
 04199     08/13/2018 17:11:24   Module 01                  vmod: 103.788 maxsys: 103.785 minsys: 103.734 diff: 0.051 vcap: 91.812 prechg: 88%
 04200     08/13/2018 17:11:24   Sevcon Not setup for 11kW about to set   
 04201     08/13/2018 17:11:25   Succesfully configured controller as 11kW   
 04202     08/13/2018 17:11:25   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed   
 04203     08/13/2018 17:11:25   DEBUG: Module 01 Contactor is now Closed   
 04204     08/13/2018 17:11:25   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2   
 04205     08/13/2018 17:11:25   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3   
 04206     08/13/2018 17:11:28   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.774V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  43C, CtrlTemp:  24C, AmbTemp:  21C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 7452km
 04207     08/13/2018 17:12:28   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 28C, l 27C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.749V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  45C, CtrlTemp:  23C, AmbTemp:  21C, MotRPM:  84, Odo: 7452km
 04208     08/13/2018 17:12:36   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode   
 04209     08/13/2018 17:12:36   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect   
 04210     08/13/2018 17:12:56   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode   
 04211     08/13/2018 17:12:56   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect   
 04212     08/13/2018 17:13:02   Power Off                  Key Switch
 04213     08/13/2018 17:13:02   Sevcon Turned Off   
 04214     08/13/2018 17:13:02   Module 00                  vmod: 103.708V, batt curr: 0A
 04215     08/13/2018 17:13:02   Module 01                  vmod: 103.736V, batt curr: 0A
 04216     08/13/2018 17:13:02   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2   
 04217     08/13/2018 17:13:02   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3   
 04218                       0   DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External   
 04219                       0   Power On                   Key Switch
 04220                       0   Key On   
 04221                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Stopped mode   
 04222                       0   Module 00                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 04223                       0   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 04224                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode   
 04225                       0   Module 01 CAN Link Up   
 04226                       0   Module 01                  serial: 16sg2639,  vmod: 103.817V
 04227     08/13/2018 17:28:14   Module 00 CAN Link Up   
 04228     08/13/2018 17:28:14   Module 00                  serial: 16sg2754,  vmod: 103.781V
 04229     08/13/2018 17:40:45   Sevcon Turned On   
 04230     08/13/2018 17:40:45   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode   
 04231     08/13/2018 17:40:45   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect   
 04232     08/13/2018 17:40:46   CAN1 ACK error. count=1   
 04233     08/13/2018 17:40:50   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 04234     08/13/2018 17:40:51   Sevcon not ready to be checked for 11kW, Disabling Bike until a battery has connected and we can check the sevcon   
 04235     08/13/2018 17:40:51   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 04236     08/13/2018 17:40:51   Module 00                  vmod: 103.777 maxsys: 103.815 minsys: 103.78 diff: 0.035 vcap: 91.625 prechg: 88%
 04237     08/13/2018 17:40:51   Module 01                  vmod: 103.812 maxsys: 103.815 minsys: 103.78 diff: 0.035 vcap: 91.625 prechg: 88%
 04238     08/13/2018 17:40:51   Sevcon Not setup for 11kW about to set   
 04239     08/13/2018 17:40:52   Succesfully configured controller as 11kW   
 04240     08/13/2018 17:40:52   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed   
 04241     08/13/2018 17:40:52   DEBUG: Module 01 Contactor is now Closed   
 04242     08/13/2018 17:40:52   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2   
 04243     08/13/2018 17:40:52   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3   
 04244     08/13/2018 17:40:55   Disarmed                   PackTemp: h 27C, l 26C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.802V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  36C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  22C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 7452km
 04245     08/13/2018 17:41:20   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode   
 04246     08/13/2018 17:41:20   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect   
 04247     08/13/2018 17:41:55   Riding                     PackTemp: h 27C, l 26C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.752V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  41C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  22C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 7452km
 04248     08/13/2018 17:42:55   Riding                     PackTemp: h 27C, l 26C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack: 103.42V, MotAmps:   9, BattAmps:   4, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  38C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  21C, MotRPM:1651, Odo: 7452km
 04249     08/13/2018 17:43:55   Riding                     PackTemp: h 27C, l 26C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:103.991V, MotAmps: -22, BattAmps:  -8, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  39C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:1731, Odo: 7452km
 04250     08/13/2018 17:44:55   Riding                     PackTemp: h 27C, l 26C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:104.261V, MotAmps: -22, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  40C, CtrlTemp:  22C, AmbTemp:  20C, MotRPM:1149, Odo: 7453km
 04251     08/13/2018 17:45:55   Riding                     PackTemp: h 27C, l 26C, PackSOC: 58%, Vpack:104.286V, MotAmps: -22, BattAmps:  -6, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  40C, CtrlTemp:  21C, AmbTemp:  19C, MotRPM:1451, Odo: 7454km
 04252     08/13/2018 17:46:55   Riding                     PackTemp: h 27C, l 26C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:104.317V, MotAmps: -22, BattAmps:  -8, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  40C, CtrlTemp:  21C, AmbTemp:  19C, MotRPM:1628, Odo: 7454km
 04253     08/13/2018 17:47:55   Riding                     PackTemp: h 27C, l 26C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:104.288V, MotAmps: -23, BattAmps:  -4, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  40C, CtrlTemp:  21C, AmbTemp:  19C, MotRPM: 822, Odo: 7455km
 04254     08/13/2018 17:48:55   Riding                     PackTemp: h 27C, l 26C, PackSOC: 59%, Vpack:104.277V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  40C, CtrlTemp:  21C, AmbTemp:  19C, MotRPM:1475, Odo: 7455km

And my firmware:
Code: [Select]
Firmware rev.      47
Board rev.         3
Model              FXS
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Zero S 2023, Zero FXS 2016

BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Engine does not stop
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2018, 04:48:22 AM »
First, "ABS / SILA reporting an error" is new to me.

Both the kickstand switch/sensor and kill switch operate via signal to the MBB.

I agree that a kill switch is definitely a "better kill switch" if it doesn't rely on positive action by the receiving system (MBB), but instead interrupts the function of the final system (Sevcon Controller) as directly as is safely possible.

Of course, there's probably some way in which interrupting the controller without the MBB being *at least notified* is unsafe. But that's different from requiring the MBB to function in order for the safety interlock to work.

At some point, we need to reason through all of the MBB's known functions together into a single coherent picture of the overall system. Hopefully Zero's dealership service manual has such a thing, and if it doesn't and the person responsible reads this, consider this an attempt to persuade you.
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gt13013

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Re: Engine does not stop
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2018, 05:37:52 AM »
Quote from: BrianTRice on August 22, 2018, 04:48:22 AM
"ABS / SILA reporting an error" is new to me.

I get the error "ABS SILA reporting an error" from time to time.

It is also found inside the topic
Sudden braking followed by no motor/throttle response on highway[2016 FXS]
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6548.0

It is also about throttle problems, and also for a 2016 FXS. Coincidence ?
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Engine does not stop
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2018, 05:44:07 AM »
Apparently (after googling) in the context of ABS, SILA is the indicating lamp?

Which is not very illuminating (har).

I can't figure out what the connection is, but maybe there is one.
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togo

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Re: Engine does not stop
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2018, 10:41:50 PM »
Weird your time goes backwards in the logs, at one point.

And I note the CAN1 bus errors. 

Wish I could help more.
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gt13013

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Re: Engine does not stop
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2018, 04:09:12 AM »
Quote from: togo on August 24, 2018, 10:41:50 PM
Weird your time goes backwards in the logs, at one point.

And I note the CAN1 bus errors. 

Wish I could help more.

You are right! I did not notice this strange "time reversal" at line 4157.
I am attaching the original log file, if it can help
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