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Author Topic: Zero S 11K curious  (Read 1408 times)

Pbassred

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Zero S 11K curious
« on: August 01, 2018, 02:34:30 AM »

(UK based)
I should start by saying that I haven't ridden a motorbike since 1986! However the prospect of a job in town and the commute that it would entail started me down a path of discovery.  CBT course is booked for next Monday morning, so I'll be ready.  So I look at the basic 7.2 KWh model and maybe there should be an introductory sticky because a few things go through my mind:-

I'm assuming that the range all use the same motor. If I wanted to advance beyond 11kw is it just a change of software?
€3500 for a battery ...... is that up-gradable after market?  Are there alternatives?
Same with the fast charger I suppose. €800 is a lot for a switch-mode power supply.  Couldn't they have made it the right size in the first place? Alternatives?
I've never charged an EV.  Can you charge the basic model from a public charge station (albeit slowly)?

In terms of the pace of change, Is a used bike a waste of time?

It could that it not the right time to go electric and I might be better off with an ICE for now. Your help could inform my choice.
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DPsSRnSD

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Re: Zero S 11K curious
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2018, 03:24:02 AM »

What does the 11kW refer to? I don't think a ZF7.2 can be upgraded. A ZF13.0 can be upgraded later to 16.6kWh.
If you have to ask if there are alternatives to upgrade the battery, the answer is no.
There are several alternatives for faster charging, both off-board and on-board units. The ChargeTank must be installed at the factory.
With the right adapters you can charge at public stations.
Bikes from 2016 (some might say 2015) to now are very good. Someone looking at a new ZF7.2 should also look at used bikes.
When your town center bans ICE bikes, you'll be happy you bought an EV.
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2020 Zero SR/S
Previously: 2016 Zero SR

Doug S

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Re: Zero S 11K curious
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2018, 04:09:26 AM »

Perhaps I can clear up some confusion. kW = kilowatts, a measure of instantaneous power. One kW equals 1.34 horsepower. A kWh (notice the addition of the h) is a kilowatt-hour, which is a measure of energy, in our world most often used to describe battery capacity. An 11kWh battery, at least in theory, could provide 11kW for an hour, or 1kW for 11 hours. In the real world, expect a bit less because of inefficiencies and power losses.

Zero uses two motors in its bikes, their "75-5" which they use on the FX class of bikes, and their "Z-Force" motor for the S and DS class of bikes. On the bikes with smaller batteries, they do reduce the current supplied to the motor somewhat to protect the battery, which is why you'll see some differences in quoted power and torque available on the different models. The highest torque/power ratings I can find are 116 ft-lb of torque and 70 hp for the Z-Force as installed in the SR, and 78 ft-lb and 46 hp for the 75-5. That's a bunch of torque and adequate power for the respective bikes.

It may seem like the chargers are simple switching power supplies, and they are, but at these power levels things get pricey or reliability suffers (sometimes both). Zero's charging philosophy is one I like: The bikes are designed for slow (overnight) charging from the factory, with the option for installing a faster charger at additional expense. Zero's stock charger is a slow charger, around 1kW, suitable for overnight charging. Ride the bike during the day, plug it into a standard 115VAC outlet and charge it overnight. This works for the great majority of us, the great majority of the time. But faster chargers are available, which allow longer trips by providing for multiple charges per day, and a lot of us have installed them. Zero has a factory solution available that uses the "public charge station" standard (known as J1772) to charge at around 6kW, giving a ~2-3 hour charge time for the largest batteries (0-100% full charge). Other solutions are available -- Diginow has a system that uses TWO J1772 plugs to offer ~9kW charging, ~10kW if you use the stock charger as well.

Other manufacturers offer other solutions, but you expressed an interest in Zeros. Honestly the charging situation is a bit of a quagmire out there outside of the J1772 standard -- hopefully everything will shake out fairly soon, but it hasn't much yet.
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There's no better alarm clock than sunlight on asphalt.

Pbassred

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Re: Zero S 11K curious
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2018, 04:27:52 AM »

@DPsSRnSD
Quote
What does the 11kW refer to? I don't think a ZF7.2 can be upgraded. A ZF13.0 can be upgraded later to 16.6kWh.

In the UK you can ride a 125CC bike with learner plates or with an A1 test. As least that how it used to be.  Since 125cc isn't a real measure of power output, the legal definition is "continuous power of 11kW". Note: not peak power.  Somehow the Zero S is learner legal (despite the 23Kw output - go figure).

I'm not sure that the simple reasoning stacks up.  I've worked in electronics manufacture for 2 decades and I can assure you that an assembly with twice as powerful components does not cost twice as much.  It sounds like marketing to me.
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hubert

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Re: Zero S 11K curious
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2018, 11:28:44 AM »

In France also the 11kW model is "popular" for (wannabe) riders who have not the full moto license, only car driver license.

I've been told that the 11kW S is limited to 130km/h (maybe sufficient for urban...) and that the torque is not really different to that of a regular S....
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2014 Zero S
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Mitsubishi i-MiEV

gt13013

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Re: Zero S 11K curious
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2018, 01:26:55 PM »

I have a 2016 FXS 11kW, and I have studied the 11kW limitation also  ;)
From what I have understood, the only difference is in the temperature at which the power limitation occurs. As far as I remember, on a "normal" bike, the motor controller allows a temperature of 100°C before reducing power, whereas for the 11kW model the limitation starts at 75°C. It means that as long as you make short runs, you have the same power and torque with the 11kW model as with the standard model.
This limitation is programmed in the SEVCON controller and cannot be modified.
Note that I am not absolutely certain about all this. It is what I have understood from readings here and there, and studying the bike logs...
Other experienced Zero users can correct if something is wrong  ;)

I can add that my bike is given for 116 km/h max in continuous use, but it goes to 137 km/h when you need it :
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6735.msg54665#msg54665
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 01:36:27 PM by gt13013 »
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Zero S 2023, Zero FXS 2016

DanielCoffey

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Re: Zero S 11K curious
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2018, 02:00:28 AM »

I am in the UK and have just bought a 2018 DS ZF7.2 11kW because I wanted a Light Motorcycle. I have been a car driver for over 25 years but have only taken the CBT so far for my UK Motorcycle entitlement thus need to have a CBT/A1 motorcycle.

The 11kW S or DS is *plenty* of power for a Light Motorcycle - seriously! I am currently running it on a Custom profile with the max torque reduced to 30% (less than Eco mode which is 40% I believe) because I have no previous motorcycle experience. That setting is plenty of power for a new rider and I want to avoid throttle mistakes. I am coming from a cheap Chinese 125cc Scooter which now feels pathetic in comparison.

I went for the 7.2kW battery because all my trips are short and on rural roads with no dual carriageway riding. I have home charging so can afford to start off every trip with a full charge if I want to. By deciding to take the 7,2kW battery I saved a good hundred pounds of weight that the 14.4kW battery brings. I don't know if a second 7.2kW battery can be added later (thus removing the below-tank storage) or whether it would need a total swap to 14.4kW unit. Others could chip in on this. If you need more range for a single trip than 80 miles Urban (probably around 70 in real world riding) or 40 miles dual carriageway then the 14.4 battery is obviously a must. If the very large majority of your trips are well under that, the lighter bike weight is something to consider.

I chose the DS over the S because my roads are definitely on the rougher side. I wanted the rough tyres and softer suspension of the DS.  I am also pretty tall and I know there are six-footers that find the S a little small. The DS is a couple of inches higher and a more upright position. With panniers on the bike, my retired neighbour who is a fair bit shorter than me had trouble swinging over the back of the DS.

I agree the included 3-pin charger is slow but if ALL your charging will be done at home (or from work with a 3-pin plug) then it is a non-issue. Your only options for faster public charging are either to buy the Zero Charge Tank (thus removing the tank storage space) or to replace the stock charger with a new belly pan and one, two or three DigiNow units (which cost about the same and charge faster than the Zero option).
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