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[Richard230]

Almost, but not quite, a motorcycle.  Nice looking though and the price is right:
https://electrek.co/2018/06/01/onyx-new-retro-styled-electric-bicycles/

[wavelet]

What I don't get, is what are they supposed to be classed as legally?
1) Not road- or cycle path -legal e-bicycles, since IIUC, the Federal and California standards are 20mph/750W and 28mph/1000W respectively.
2) Not mopeds in California, since mopeds are limited to 30mph and  2BHP; even the lower-end model has more power than that.
3) They can't be registered as motorcycles, since AFAICS, they lack turn signals, brake lights etc.

Their FAQ claims they're limited to 750W, without bothering to explain the contradiction with 3.3 / 7.2 BHP, and claims no license is needed, which is also a lie: Both mopeds & motorcycles require a motorcycle driver's license (M1 or M2) in CA, as well as registering the vehicle (not sure about insurance for mopeds).

Yet another crowdfunding fraud.

[Richard230]

What I don't get, is what are they supposed to be classed as legally?
1) Not road- or cycle path -legal e-bicycles, since IIUC, the Federal and California standards are 20mph/750W and 28mph/1000W respectively.
2) Not mopeds in California, since mopeds are limited to 30mph and  2BHP; even the lower-end model has more power than that.
3) They can't be registered as motorcycles, since AFAICS, they lack turn signals, brake lights etc.

Their FAQ claims they're limited to 750W, without bothering to explain the contradiction with 3.3 / 7.2 BHP, and claims no license is needed, which is also a lie: Both mopeds & motorcycles require a motorcycle driver's license (M1 or M2) in CA, as well as registering the vehicle (not sure about insurance for mopeds).

Yet another crowdfunding fraud.

My guess is that the DMV would classify them as a "motor scooter" and require a license and registration to match.  However, I bet the designers of the things are more into designing than conforming to DMV regulations.  My guess is that they will sell a certain number of them to auto drivers for commuting who will not register the vehicles until they get caught by a dedicated and motivated cop. At which point the DMV and other government agencies will find out about the vehicles and lower the boom - either requiring a recall of the devices and either putting Electrek out of business, or requiring them to redesign the mopeds to conform to MV laws and get with the program.  My guess is that this sort of thing happens all of the time with small electric vehicle startups.

[wavelet]

Probably not "scooter" -- that's those small things with tiny wheels you stand on.
You might be right about the rest, which is hard for me to get around. Over here, riding a vehicle which is supposed to be registered without proper registration & licensing is a criminal offense -- the most serious part is the lack of mandatory 3d-party insurance, which could lead to a jail sentence by itself. Selling such a vehicle is also criminal (not homologated), and ditto possible jail sentence.

[Richard230]

Probably not "scooter" -- that's those small things with tiny wheels you stand on.
You might be right about the rest, which is hard for me to get around. Over here, riding a vehicle which is supposed to be registered without proper registration & licensing is a criminal offense -- the most serious part is the lack of mandatory 3d-party insurance, which could lead to a jail sentence by itself. Selling such a vehicle is also criminal (not homologated), and ditto possible jail sentence.

In California there is an M2 license category.  I think that is for riders of small motor scooters and other two-wheel vehicles, called "motor driven cycles" that don't have enough power to ride on freeways. 

[wavelet]

Probably not "scooter" -- that's those small things with tiny wheels you stand on.
You might be right about the rest, which is hard for me to get around. Over here, riding a vehicle which is supposed to be registered without proper registration & licensing is a criminal offense -- the most serious part is the lack of mandatory 3d-party insurance, which could lead to a jail sentence by itself. Selling such a vehicle is also criminal (not homologated), and ditto possible jail sentence.

In California there is an M2 license category.  I think that is for riders of small motor scooters and other two-wheel vehicles, called "motor driven cycles" that don't have enough power to ride on freeways. 

Not that it matters much for our purposes, but according to the DMV link I mentioned above, M2 is for the Moped class: Limited physically to 30mph, auto transmission, capable of being pedaled, less than 2 BHP (=~1500W).
Motor scooters (further down in the DMV page) don't need a license AFAICS.

Anything else which isn't an e-bicycle (<1000W & 28mph) requires a full M1 motorcycle license.

[Richard230]

Probably not "scooter" -- that's those small things with tiny wheels you stand on.
You might be right about the rest, which is hard for me to get around. Over here, riding a vehicle which is supposed to be registered without proper registration & licensing is a criminal offense -- the most serious part is the lack of mandatory 3d-party insurance, which could lead to a jail sentence by itself. Selling such a vehicle is also criminal (not homologated), and ditto possible jail sentence.

In California there is an M2 license category.  I think that is for riders of small motor scooters and other two-wheel vehicles, called "motor driven cycles" that don't have enough power to ride on freeways. 

Not that it matters much for our purposes, but according to the DMV link I mentioned above, M2 is for the Moped class: Limited physically to 30mph, auto transmission, capable of being pedaled, less than 2 BHP (=~1500W).
Motor scooters (further down in the DMV page) don't need a license AFAICS.

Anything else which isn't an e-bicycle (<1000W & 28mph) requires a full M1 motorcycle license.

I stand corrected.  I was trying to recall the information that I read in my DMV handbook that I looked at before I took my "written" test for my license renewal last year.  Of course, I did have to take the test three times before I passed, thanks to both my poor memory and my lack of understanding as to why the DMV and I don't agree about how to ride a motorcycle.   

I wonder how many M2 licenses the CA DMV has issued?  I bet not as many as there are people riding "mopeds" around the state. 

[wavelet]

my lack of understanding as to why the DMV and I don't agree about how to ride a motorcycle.   

Let me guess, they deny countersteering is a thing? Or think only the rear brake should be used to slow down?

[Doug S]

I wonder how many M2 licenses the CA DMV has issued?  I bet not as many as there are people riding "mopeds" around the state. 

When I was in high school in the late 70s (yes, I'm old), mopeds were very popular, and a lot of kids were just SURE that it was legal to ride without a driver's license. It was common knowledge. Until the day a police cruiser parked near the high school and ticketed every single rider (dozens of them) who drove by them. The next day, there were maybe two or three mopeds on campus...presumably, the ones whose riders had actual driver's licenses.