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Author Topic: Zero Customer Service Log  (Read 1685 times)

MostlyBonkers

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Zero Customer Service Log
« on: March 23, 2018, 11:37:22 AM »

Zero's customer service has been a sore point for just about every owner that has experienced a problem with their bike.  For some, poor customer experience has been so bad they've decided to vote with their feet and say goodbye. Often at significant financial loss.

I have been given the runaround by Zero and have had to endure multiple episodes myself, despite my dealers' best efforts.  Unfortunately my rear shock failed after only 18,000 miles recently and I am having to run the gauntlet again.  This time I've decided to log my experience here, in the hope it makes a difference.

Tuesday 13th March: Called dealer

Thursday: Called dealer, warranty claim was logged in the system yesterday. I agreed to wait until the end of the week before chasing Zero directly.

Friday: Called dealer. No news.

[Bit of a gap... I am trying to hold down a full time job and raise a family too.]

Tuesday 20th March: Called dealer who gave me a contact at Zero's European headquarters for warranty claims.  I sent Jill an email.

Wednesday: I received a reply from Jill saying she would check the status with the dealer as soon as possible. I replied explaining that my dealer was waiting for her to authorise the warranty claim. I got a reply that Kevin, who looks after servicing at the dealership was not in the office that day.

Fair enough...

Thursday: Spoke to Kevin who said Dale (Zero's rep in the UK), had called. It hadn't been a productive call because Dale hadn't checked the system properly so there was some confusion about the warranty claim. I emailed Jill to explain that situation and ask for any news. No reply as yet.

So it is now ten days since I reported the issue and nothing has happened. In the meantime I'm riding a motorcycle with a failed shock absorber, which is hardly ideal. 

This is how it should have played out so far:

Tuesday: Report issue

Wednesday (I'm being generous): Dealer calls me to arrange a time to drop my bike off and pick up a courtesy bike.

Thursday: Drop bike off on my way to work and pick up the courtesy bike.

Saturday: Pick my bike up with a new shock absorber fitted under warranty with an apology for the inconvenience.

That would have been a satisfactory outcome.  Let's see how this story unfolds.  I'm using it as an exercise to see if Zero's customer service has improved since this time last year when I had all the trouble with the bearings.  So far, not so good. I may take a closer look at Energica for my next bike although with them being an Italian make, I'm not filled with confidence.  Yamaha perhaps? Honda maybe? I rather fancy a Triumph.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 11:41:00 AM by MostlyBonkers »
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domingo3

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2018, 02:32:32 PM »

To counter that, with surprisingly good service attempt someone I recently met took their bike to a local dealer.  Since the dealer is inexperienced, Zero paid to have the bike shipped back to HQ. They apologized on their own for it taking so long, and offered to throw in some free gear (either a charger or set of tires) just as a token of good will.

  That hasn't happened to me, but it's both nice and infuriating at the same time to hear about such different levels of service.
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Richard230

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2018, 07:57:02 PM »

Zero used to offer very good customer service, at least through 2012.  During that year they picked up my bike twice from my home and repaired it at the factory and then later in the year sent me a large Zero-brand backpack out-of-the-blue, which I still have in my backpack storage closet.

I guess vehicle sales have outrun customer service now, especially when you are some distance from the factory.  ???

Having had 25 years and a number of warranty claims regarding 8 BMW motorcycles that I have owned over that period, I can say that I have never had to argue with BMWNA about a warranty claim.  My dealer always did that and always managed to get approval for the warranty work, even when it wasn't covered by the warranty contract - such as when my steering bearings (a "wear" item in the warranty language) failed on two different motorcycles and another time with my original battery died after two years and was replaced for free with a new battery.  But (having said that) it takes even BMW time to find the parts in their inventory, especially in North America. If my computer-controlled "semi-active"  ::) $2,900  :o rear suspension unit failed it would likely not be found in their parts inventory and would have to be special ordered directly from the factory and that would likely take about 30 days to arrive. (BMWNA tends to stockpile small, relatively inexpensive parts, but the big expensive stuff they won't import unless needed on a case-by-case basis.)  Also, while my BMW dealer will give you a service loaner bike to ride for a day, they won't let you keep it overnight, much less until your bike is finally repaired.

My suspicion is that Zero orders just enough parts from their off-shore suppliers to manufacture the number of motorcycles that they plan for the year and just doesn't order much in the way of extra parts that may be needed for warranty claims.  When something like a failed shock (I had two new Ohlins shocks completely fail over the past years, both of which needed to be rebuilt by the distributor), occurs, Zero likely doesn't have any extra shocks just laying around and then comes the stonewalling.  If they don't have any extra shocks, then the smart thing to do would be to authorize a local motorcycle suspension shop to repair the shock.  Since they are using Showa components now, instead of goofy Fast Ace stuff, it should be no problem to have the shock repaired locally. It could be repaired quickly, paid for by the shop and let them fight with Zero to get reimbursed. I imagine that their franchise agreement would provide for situations like this.  ???  Alternately, the customer could go the same route and if Zero didn't reimburse them for the cost, they could sue them in small claims court and that would be an easy win, I would think.  ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

NEW2elec

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2018, 09:41:41 PM »

As a brave Fast Ace rider myself the term goofy hits pretty hard :)
He has a 14 so it is Fast Ace.
I was hoping Zero would have an adapter kit to switch over to the Showa but I guess it's just not worth the effort.
I feel Zero needs to move on out of CA and come where workers are easy to get and cheap to boot. 
A west coast hub in CA since they throw so much tax money at them but the real work can be done so much cheaper in other parts of the country, allowing a full time customer service and tech staff.  They could have cheap warehouse space to store parts for + 10% of yearly production model numbers and enjoy the larger order number discounts.
Plus an east coast HQ puts the EU in closer reach which is where EVs are blowing up right now.
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2018, 02:19:04 AM »

Zero from what I have gathered are only just now getting out of having a bespoke warehousing system, which is really hard to grasp since most vehicle manufacturers are much larger and have invested in this wing of their business. If they integrate with a large distribution company, it should resolve a lot of the spare parts questions - I think they've had the parts and just had no efficient system for ensuring that they get packaged, filed, labeled, and extracted systematically.

The idea that picking up and moving to (say) Tennessee or somewhere else on the US east coast would fix these problems is ludicrous. West Coast logistics dominate the power electronics business, and Zero can't afford to be away from that or to demand that its engineers and management move away from these hubs of talent.

Maybe when they have made a "blueprint to dealer" specification for how to manufacture the bikes at 5-10x their current scale, they can move manufacturing somewhere, but paying workers less is NOT a recipe for getting better quality, which I KNOW each person on this forum has at least a tacit concern about, from seeing threads about a small number of bikes going through the troubleshooting and replacement cycle with no final solution.

Finally, I don't agree that any form of Zero's customer service has ever been "good" (despite many heroic efforts on their part to get customers' bikes back on the road, which shows a lot of goodwill). The quotes are to emphasize that a survivable vehicle company has to have a vehicle that is broadly and economically fixable, which a factory roundtrip disproves every time it's invoked.

The unclear communications illustrated by the OP also need to be fixed, and I do not understand how this process is still so haphazard and unreliable. I hear stories from both ends of the pipeline, and it is bizarre how little perspective is shared after an incident.

FWIW, regarding rear shocks for 2013-2014 Zeros (FastAce replacements), it seems that Hollywood Electrics might have an option and I suggest calling or emailing them to understand what might be possible now.
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MostlyBonkers

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2018, 11:41:55 PM »

Thanks for the comments folks.

I spoke to Dale on Friday and the shock is on its way.  Hopefully I'll be able to get it fitted this week.  So despite a slow start, once Dale got involved things have been expedited. It's good to have a rep in the UK and I think he's doing what he can to improve the whole experience.

I think it's fair to say that things have improved. There doesn't seem to have been any delay getting the part shipped from the new distribution centre in Europe. That means it must have been in stock. I'd also recommend asking your dealer for the name of the appropriate contact at Zero along with their email address.

Well done Zero!
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NEW2elec

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2018, 10:46:50 AM »

Brian you know I have great respect for you but I think you underestimate how cheap everything becomes in say Tennessee.  The savings on the warehouse and factory buildings alone compared to CA would get you a full time customer service staff.

Toyota and BMW have big plants in the south and Porsche has their NA HQ here for that reason. As for paying people less, you have to remember what that "less" pay gets someone down here.
I've had many people move here from NY and CA from 1400sqft boxes into 7000sqft estates. 

Once you've been a big fish in a small pond you don't go back.
Here, this is what two and a half million gets you south of Atlanta.
https://www.georgiamls.com/321-loring-ln-peachtree-city-ga-30269/8189016
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 11:01:10 AM by NEW2elec »
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Richard230

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2018, 08:12:54 PM »

Brian you know I have great respect for you but I think you underestimate how cheap everything becomes in say Tennessee.  The savings on the warehouse and factory buildings alone compared to CA would get you a full time customer service staff.

Toyota and BMW have big plants in the south and Porsche has their NA HQ here for that reason. As for paying people less, you have to remember what that "less" pay gets someone down here.
I've had many people move here from NY and CA from 1400sqft boxes into 7000sqft estates. 

Once you've been a big fish in a small pond you don't go back.
Here, this is what two and a half million gets you south of Atlanta.
https://www.georgiamls.com/321-loring-ln-peachtree-city-ga-30269/8189016

A very impressive home, but all I see is a whole lot to keep clean and full-time yard work. Do you have illegal aliens in Tennessee that perform that kind of work really cheap like we do in CA?  ::)  All I care about is the garage.  ;) How big is that home's garage?  That would be the selling point for me.  ;D

I have a nephew who lives in Tennessee and he recently bought a nice 5 bedroom, 3 bath, two-car garage home for about half of what of what a typical down payment on a home would go for in the Bay Area. So you won't get any argument from me about Tennessee's cost of living.  ;)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

NEW2elec

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2018, 09:13:59 PM »

As for the yard work question, si  $50 :)
That house is a few "blocks" from my parents house so it was easy to put up.
I'm in GA but Brian used TN, which has no state income tax by the way.
The point is, if you even wanted the current Zero staff, you could entice them to move without much effort.
Of course I'm thinking of getting the cream of the crop from Georgia Tech.  If they can keep the ramblin wreck going they can make a solid electric motorcycle.
Zero could be better served with a very good engineer they can afford to hire than to say there is an AMAZING engineer that "works for some company in the same town" as Zero.
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2018, 11:06:28 PM »

I’m living in a place where the housing is 1000% more expensive than where I grew up. I know this area is crazy.

What I’m saying is that geographic distance is expensive to compensate for without a lot of scale to amortize the overhead of remote management.

Also I do not like how wages are treated. Companies should invest in their employees and the communities that make those employees worth hiring. Everyone should be able to have fulfilling careers and decent retirements.

Anyway, that’s my rant, and I definitely understand what you mean.
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MostlyBonkers

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2018, 02:54:29 PM »

Quick update: A call from Dale on Thursday night revealed the shock absorber hadn't been shipped, despite my being told differently a week ago.

It's down to Zero's procedures and systems. A learning experience for Dale, which is understandable as he's new.  My dealer should have known better by now, but we're all human. 

What I was impressed by was the fact that Dale rang me. It's usually me calling Zero or the dealer. He also said he'd rather get in touch even if it's bad news. Bingo!  That is what so many of us have said on here. Keep us informed, even if it's just to tell us there are further delays. Being honest earns a lot of goodwill and patience.

The shock is now on 24hr shipping so I can expect it to be at the dealer on Tuesday after Easter.  Progress of sorts.
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Richard230

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2018, 07:59:28 PM »

Quick update: A call from Dale on Thursday night revealed the shock absorber hadn't been shipped, despite my being told differently a week ago.

It's down to Zero's procedures and systems. A learning experience for Dale, which is understandable as he's new.  My dealer should have known better by now, but we're all human. 

What I was impressed by was the fact that Dale rang me. It's usually me calling Zero or the dealer. He also said he'd rather get in touch even if it's bad news. Bingo!  That is what so many of us have said on here. Keep us informed, even if it's just to tell us there are further delays. Being honest earns a lot of goodwill and patience.

The shock is now on 24hr shipping so I can expect it to be at the dealer on Tuesday after Easter.  Progress of sorts.

You are absolutely correct!  But why has it taken Zero 12 years to get that message?
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

MostlyBonkers

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2018, 05:56:45 AM »

Quick update: A call from Dale on Thursday night revealed the shock absorber hadn't been shipped, despite my being told differently a week ago.

It's down to Zero's procedures and systems. A learning experience for Dale, which is understandable as he's new.  My dealer should have known better by now, but we're all human. 

What I was impressed by was the fact that Dale rang me. It's usually me calling Zero or the dealer. He also said he'd rather get in touch even if it's bad news. Bingo!  That is what so many of us have said on here. Keep us informed, even if it's just to tell us there are further delays. Being honest earns a lot of goodwill and patience.

The shock is now on 24hr shipping so I can expect it to be at the dealer on Tuesday after Easter.  Progress of sorts.

You are absolutely correct!  But why has it taken Zero 12 years to get that message?

That's a very good question Richard.  What I find interesting is that the improved customer service has come from a new rep who probably learnt that strategy elsewhere. Dale is also a biker and I'm sure that helps.  Perhaps he's also suffering from the novelty factor of being in a new job and wanting to make a difference. Once he's fully assimilated I'm sure normal service (or lack thereof), will resume. ;-)

OK, so that was very cynical of me.  So far, it seems Dale is a great addition to the Zero team. I met him at the EV event a few weeks back and we got on well.  I hope he can make a difference by intervening like he has in my case and filling the gaps in Zero's customer service offering.  In fact, if anyone reading this happens to be having trouble with their Zero and lives in the UK, then I urge you to get in touch with Dale directly.
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MostlyBonkers

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2018, 11:28:55 PM »

Another update.

The replacement shock absorber arrived last Tuesday, 3rd April.  I went to drop my bike off on Wednesday morning and we then discovered that they'd sent the wrong shock. One for a MY 2015 bike and mine's a 14.

We agreed that I'd leave my bike at the dealer so I've been riding a courtesy bike since.  The thinking was that the correct shock could be shipped over quickly and I'd be picking my bike up by the end of the week.  Wrong again.  I rang the dealer on Friday and the shock hadn't arrived. Monday has now been and gone so I'm starting to wonder if they've got one at all.  Maybe back in the US?

I'll let you know when there's more news.
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MostlyBonkers

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Re: Zero Customer Service Log
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2018, 11:39:21 PM »

Final update.

Wednesday 11th April (today): Picked my bike up with a new shock absorber fitted.

So that was a month, or as good as. At least the communication was better this time round.

It's always interesting riding a conventional bike, in this case a Suzuki SV650, for a few days.  I much prefer the handling of my DS.  In fact I much prefer just about everything about my Zero. It's always nice to be back on it again and other than getting a newer and faster Zero, I can't think of another bike that would be better for my commute.  For refinement, ease of use, running costs and convenience, it's hard to beat.

It was nice to see a BMW e-scooter on my way home. We gave each other a thumbs up.
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