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[droidish]

..."Commissioning" was not mentioned, however the following was performed:  "Adjust Encoder timing using zero diagnostic software"... 

                                                                             
Bingo!         I think.       

[Shadow]

..."Commissioning" was not mentioned, however the following was performed:  "Adjust Encoder timing using zero diagnostic software"... 

Bingo! I think.

Yep. The procedure is to lift the bike in the air, run the calibration program which displays feedback as an X/Y graph from running the throttle, the technician runs the throttle and observes the computer screen such that the point cloud stays within the target zone. This generates a calibration value for the controller. The value should not change much beyond an initial "bed-in" of the motor magnets from when new, hence it's pretty darn important to do this when the bike is new and as part of long term regular maintenance. Having the wrong values can cause all kinds of unwanted behavior like a motor running backwards, regen fails, and jumps in acceleration curve.

[Richard230]

..."Commissioning" was not mentioned, however the following was performed:  "Adjust Encoder timing using zero diagnostic software"... 

Bingo! I think.

Yep. The procedure is to lift the bike in the air, run the calibration program which displays feedback as an X/Y graph from running the throttle, the technician runs the throttle and observes the computer screen such that the point cloud stays within the target zone. This generates a calibration value for the controller. The value should not change much beyond an initial "bed-in" of the motor magnets from when new, hence it's pretty darn important to do this when the bike is new and as part of long term regular maintenance. Having the wrong values can cause all kinds of unwanted behavior like a motor running backwards, regen fails, and jumps in acceleration curve.

On the other hand, I never had this "commissioning" performed to my 2014 Zero S and it still seems to run perfectly - even if the battery pack only charges to 92% before turning off for the day.    So I guess that bike is ready to have its battery pack "commissioned".   

[Shadow]

On the other hand, I never had this "commissioning" performed to my 2014 Zero S and it still seems to run perfectly - even if the battery pack only charges to 92% before turning off for the day.    So I guess that bike is ready to have its battery pack "commissioned".   

2014 was before IPM motor?

[Richard230]

On the other hand, I never had this "commissioning" performed to my 2014 Zero S and it still seems to run perfectly - even if the battery pack only charges to 92% before turning off for the day.    So I guess that bike is ready to have its battery pack "commissioned".   

2014 was before IPM motor?

Yes. So prior to the IPM, "commissioning" was not an issue?  If that is the case, I wonder why? 

And today the 2014's charging display showed 96% and when we plugged it back in it started charging again.  Looks like it is on its way to 98% 

[Shadow]

Yes. So prior to the IPM, "commissioning" was not an issue?  If that is the case, I wonder why? 

Perhaps the details are all in my imagination, although I recall listening to Abe's presentation of the IPM design (amid other topics at the 10th anniversary Zero Motorcycles gathering)... and I'm thinking there was something rather different about the IPM design which relies on a more exact magnetic field alignment with respect to controller timing. I have zero competence in that area of study, I just have heard casually mentioned from people who I think might know better than me that the new IPM design absolutely requires that for a new motor a commissioning / calibration procedure be carried out as the motor is no longer brand new because it is known from the R&D phase and over time that the field of magnet materials used will drift slightly from their initial state, that the drift is not always consistent from one batch of materials to the next from their supplier, and after the initial correction of calibration are not expected to change anymore but it is good practice to perform that calibration periodically just to catch any outliers.

From experience I may have a failed target magnet on my 2016 DSR's IPM motor assembly, which led to an outcome of some really scary riding experience. My opinion weighing in here is that the theory of "if it is not broken then don't do an update to calibration/firmware" is probably more appropriate to the non-IPM model year bikes. I would urge the owners of all IPM-equipped Zero bikes to keep their equipment updated and calibrated, for safety sake, just as the manufacturer Zero Motorcycles has advised in all bulletins. If you were ignoring the calibration and regular maintenance then you might earn a 100mph trip to somewhere you don't want to be! It is my hope that this mode of failure never happens in concert with a contactor fused to a closed circuit; you would have to lay down the bike or die trying.

[Richard230]

Yes. So prior to the IPM, "commissioning" was not an issue?  If that is the case, I wonder why? 

Perhaps the details are all in my imagination, although I recall listening to Abe's presentation of the IPM design (amid other topics at the 10th anniversary Zero Motorcycles gathering)... and I'm thinking there was something rather different about the IPM design which relies on a more exact magnetic field alignment with respect to controller timing. I have zero competence in that area of study, I just have heard casually mentioned from people who I think might know better than me that the new IPM design absolutely requires that for a new motor a commissioning / calibration procedure be carried out as the motor is no longer brand new because it is known from the R&D phase and over time that the field of magnet materials used will drift slightly from their initial state, that the drift is not always consistent from one batch of materials to the next from their supplier, and after the initial correction of calibration are not expected to change anymore but it is good practice to perform that calibration periodically just to catch any outliers.

From experience I may have a failed target magnet on my 2016 DSR's IPM motor assembly, which led to an outcome of some really scary riding experience. My opinion weighing in here is that the theory of "if it is not broken then don't do an update to calibration/firmware" is probably more appropriate to the non-IPM model year bikes. I would urge the owners of all IPM-equipped Zero bikes to keep their equipment updated and calibrated, for safety sake, just as the manufacturer Zero Motorcycles has advised in all bulletins. If you were ignoring the calibration and regular maintenance then you might earn a 100mph trip to somewhere you don't want to be! It is my hope that this mode of failure never happens in concert with a contactor fused to a closed circuit; you would have to lay down the bike or die trying.

I guess that sounds technical enough to confuse me.  But you convinced me to visit my dealer every 6K miles for the recommended Zero servicing. At least it costs a lot less than going to my BMW dealer for the same servicing interval.

[Richard230]

Well, I can now report that there is an impact on the battery charge when the green charging nightlight stays on after pulling the charging power cable plug.  Even though I have Zero's largest battery pack, with a capacity of 15.38 kWh, when the charging light stays on the battery capacity drops by 1% each day it stays lit. (I left the display and charging light on for three days and it never went out.)  But when I checked the voltage after three days, it had dropped from 116 volts to 113 volts and the battery pack's capacity had dropped over 500 watts during that time, according to the Zero app. So now I will have to force the display to turn off by either re-powering the charger for a few minutes or turning the ignition on and off.  Both actions seem to be able to turn off the 100% display and green charging light. Sounds like Zero is going to have to develop a software update to correct this anomaly.

[ChibiBiker]

Hello All!
I just took delivery of my 2018 Zero SR last Saturday. 
I had no issues when I charged the Zero in downtown Portland, OR (Level II Unknown charger make).  But Monday when I charged it at work (Level II, GE Wattstation), someone else unplugged the Zero while I was awhile (Normal process for our work chargers).
When I got back to the bike, I appear to have the same issue, the bike thinks it is still charging.  I could only get it to switch to "run" when I pushed the bike forward.
Every time I turned off the bike, I had to repeat the process: See charging indicator, push forward, ride.
Monday night, I used the accessory port to run a tire inflator and when I was done, the "check engine" light was on with Error 47 (MBB Charger Check Fail).
I tried plugging in to the Level 1 charger at home and it noticed it was charging, but still did not notice the system was unplugged (I'm guessing from the charge tank).
I sent the logs to Zero and dealer last night.
This morning, same thing on the ride to work (this is now 40 miles of operation since last Level II charge).
I'm going to try plugging it back into the LII charger during my lunch break and hope for better results.

So I guess I just wanted to throw my "hat into the ring" so to speak.
Hello All!

[Richard230]

I sent in my logs regarding the charging light staying on when the charger is unplugged about a month ago, along with a detailed message about the problem.  No response yet.

[dukecola]

Well, I can now report that there is an impact on the battery charge when the green charging nightlight stays on after pulling the charging power cable plug.  Even though I have Zero's largest battery pack, with a capacity of 15.38 kWh, when the charging light stays on the battery capacity drops by 1% each day it stays lit. (I left the display and charging light on for three days and it never went out.)  But when I checked the voltage after three days, it had dropped from 116 volts to 113 volts and the battery pack's capacity had dropped over 500 watts during that time, according to the Zero app. So now I will have to force the display to turn off by either re-powering the charger for a few minutes or turning the ignition on and off.  Both actions seem to be able to turn off the 100% display and green charging light. Sounds like Zero is going to have to develop a software update to correct this anomaly.

How can ths=is be? There is no way a battery can discharge that much in a day, unless the SOC was not really the actual. I park my bike in late october at 60% and in late April, pull it out and it only dropped to 55%. 5% in 6 months.

[Richard230]

Well, I can now report that there is an impact on the battery charge when the green charging nightlight stays on after pulling the charging power cable plug.  Even though I have Zero's largest battery pack, with a capacity of 15.38 kWh, when the charging light stays on the battery capacity drops by 1% each day it stays lit. (I left the display and charging light on for three days and it never went out.)  But when I checked the voltage after three days, it had dropped from 116 volts to 113 volts and the battery pack's capacity had dropped over 500 watts during that time, according to the Zero app. So now I will have to force the display to turn off by either re-powering the charger for a few minutes or turning the ignition on and off.  Both actions seem to be able to turn off the 100% display and green charging light. Sounds like Zero is going to have to develop a software update to correct this anomaly.

How can ths=is be? There is no way a battery can discharge that much in a day, unless the SOC was not really the actual. I park my bike in late october at 60% and in late April, pull it out and it only dropped to 55%. 5% in 6 months.

Apparently, when the charger is unplugged and the charging light goes off, the contactor switch cuts out with a loud click.  When that happens, the battery pack will stay fully charged for a long time. 

However in my case, when I disconnect the charging cord the green charging light and the dash display stay on and the contactor switch does not disconnect, so (apparently) the charger stays connected to the battery pack somehow and slowly bleeds power from the battery (back to the charger?) to the tune of a volt or so every day. Turning the ignition on and then off again, causes the contactor switch to click off, the display to go blank and the charging light to go off, resulting in normal battery storage.  I don't know if there is a problem with the contactor switch or with the BMS program that causes the switch to be disconnected when the charger is unplugged.

However I might also mention that if I can pull the charging plug within 10 minutes of the battery being fully charged and top balanced, as indicated by a steady green charging light, the contactor switch will click off and the light go out as normal.  But if I wait more than 10 minutes, the contactor switch will not disconnect, the dash display will remain on and the charging light will stay on as if the charger was still powered on.    All very strange.  Fortunately it is not a big problem for me, just an unexplained irritant. 

[BamBam]

FWIW, my new 2017 DSR does the same thing with the charging light, but it's no big deal to just turn the key on and off when I unplug to make the  light go out.