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[Richard230]

After checking the french 2nd hand web site, I found a handfull of zeros at "fair" prices, and also a handfull of "BMW C EVO" asking prices near list price of new bikes. Does it mean that the BMW depreciates much less or that those sellers just overestimate the BMW reputation?

Finally I was willing to buy (13 months ago already!) my '14 S from a guy in Paris, about 500km far away from home. At about half price of new, with only 5kkm on the clock. And it took me 1.5 days (including endless recharging) driving it (slowly) back home.

The bike I bought was put on sale first at the parisian Zero retailer and later on the web site for private transactions, it took over 6 months for the seller finding a buyer (me), at 2k€ less than original asking price.

Electric motorcycle/scooter prices are really hard to figure out.  It all seems to depend upon the local market.  BMW decided to sell its C-Evolution scooter, with the top-of-the-line battery pack, in California to test the market.  They have given it a really inexpensive price of just under $14,000.  I think that is much less than what they sell for in Europe, so BMW must be loosing money on each sale.  Unfortunately for BMWNA, my dealer can't seem to give them away.  They have only sold one during the past 5 months and that was to a customer in Texas. The dealership is located in the heart of Silicon Valley and you would think that a well-made and technically sophisticated BMW-brand electric scooter would sell reasonably well, especially at that low price.  But no. The EV enthusiasts around here are sticking with their loaded $100K+ Tesla Model S cars and are not about to risk their lives or cell phone connections while riding a two-wheeled contrivance.   

[originalspacerob]

I would say the resale value is all based on where you live. I listed my Zero on here, Craigslist and Cycle Trader and only had one person that was interested. But not at The price i was listing it for. The bike is a 2017 Zero DSR with approx 3500 miles. I paid $18,000 or so for it, listed it for $13,500 and then listed it for $11,500. There were no takers. I even have a lot of extras on it. The bike is only 8 months old and I have the title in hand. So it appears here on the east coast not much interest. I cant take that much of a loss so I decided to keep it and run it until its dead and see how long it goes.


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[Richard230]

I would say the resale value is all based on where you live. I listed my Zero on here, Craigslist and Cycle Trader and only had one person that was interested. But not at The price i was listing it for. The bike is a 2017 Zero DSR with approx 3500 miles. I paid $18,000 or so for it, listed it for $13,500 and then listed it for $11,500. There were no takers. I even have a lot of extras on it. The bike is only 8 months old and I have the title in hand. So it appears here on the east coast not much interest. I cant take that much of a loss so I decided to keep it and run it until its dead and see how long it goes.


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I think that once gas prices hit $5.00 or more a gallon, electric vehicles, even used ones, will start looking better and better to the consumer. The way things are going in California, it won't take too long before those type of gas prices are reached, thanks to our automatic and various types of hidden fuel taxes (including sales taxes based upon the total price of the fuel, which includes regular gas taxes, as well as carbon-credit taxes and the cost of other fuel-related regulations). Right now my local gas station has raised its price for regular fuel to $3.52 and the price is going up 5 cents a week.  It is only a matter of time before the public becomes aware of electric motorcycles and the advantages of riding them. 

Which also reminds me.  Most of Zero's parts are sourced in China and Trump is about to announce hefty tariffs on high-tech Chinese goods.  I wonder if those parts will be affected by the tariffs and if they are, what will happen to Zero's prices and ultimately their sales and ability to continue in business.?   

[NEW2elec]

Originalspacerob, first that WA bike got sold out from under me with the worst dealer practice I've ever dealt with so maybe some karma on my part.
You had a good price on your bike.  You have to remember it's not just where it's at but when it's at, the north east coast in still frozen right now, come April your bike would sell.
The extras are tricky because it's like any custom setup it's harder to find someone who perfectly matches those options to their needs.

If you want to keep it I think that's your best move if you still like riding it.
I think shipping and taxes on my end may have put me out of the 2017 market and I'll wait for a cheaper 18 with the 14.4 since fast charging just isn't an option for my area, I need range.

For others looking to sell, these bikes would realistically take 4 or more months to sell, it's just a small market.  My local dealer took a year and a half to sell a used DR650 so that's just sort of the bike market (don't get me started on boats) right now.

[hubert]

I think that once gas prices hit $5.00 or more a gallon, electric vehicles, even used ones, will start looking better and better to the consumer.

Really?

In EU the typical gas price is almost 1.50€/liter, thats about 7 USD/Gal US. And people don't care, are not so interrested in EV's and EMC's. Maybe EU cars typically burn much less gas per distance unit than US (big) cars...

whereever, gas price is really low. Most people are angry about gas price because whatever its value, it is too much. Maybe for free it would be acceptable. Nobody seems to understand the amount of (fossile and climate killing) energy contained in a liter of gas. Just try and move in another way than with the car or the ICE bike. By foot, bicycle, horseback, bus, train, helicopter, taxi or even EV! At the end, the petrol car remains the least expensive vs. speed and comfort. even with gas price at 10$/gal.

[Richard230]

I think that once gas prices hit $5.00 or more a gallon, electric vehicles, even used ones, will start looking better and better to the consumer.

Really?

In EU the typical gas price is almost 1.50€/liter, thats about 7 USD/Gal US. And people don't care, are not so interrested in EV's and EMC's. Maybe EU cars typically burn much less gas per distance unit than US (big) cars...

whereever, gas price is really low. Most people are angry about gas price because whatever its value, it is too much. Maybe for free it would be acceptable. Nobody seems to understand the amount of (fossile and climate killing) energy contained in a liter of gas. Just try and move in another way than with the car or the ICE bike. By foot, bicycle, horseback, bus, train, helicopter, taxi or even EV! At the end, the petrol car remains the least expensive vs. speed and comfort. even with gas price at 10$/gal.

On a somewhat related subject, an article in my newspaper today said that San Francisco, Oakland and other cities and counties in northern California are suing the Big Oil companies to recover costs associated with adapting to climate change.  They say that much of the warming of the world's climate is the result of burning the fossil fuel that Big Oil is selling and therefore they should be responsible for these costs. So far Big Oil has agreed that the climate is warming but have not agreed that they knew about it before anyone else did and failed to tell the public about the cause and that global warming costs are their responsibility, which is what the lawsuit is attempting to establish.  The law suit is just starting and will likely go for quite a while until the court makes it decision - or tosses the case.  Once that happens there are lots of higher courts to visit. 

Sorry about hijacking the thread subject. 

[originalspacerob]

Originalspacerob, first that WA bike got sold out from under me with the worst dealer practice I've ever dealt with so maybe some karma on my part.
You had a good price on your bike.  You have to remember it's not just where it's at but when it's at, the north east coast in still frozen right now, come April your bike would sell.
The extras are tricky because it's like any custom setup it's harder to find someone who perfectly matches those options to their needs.

If you want to keep it I think that's your best move if you still like riding it.
I think shipping and taxes on my end may have put me out of the 2017 market and I'll wait for a cheaper 18 with the 14.4 since fast charging just isn't an option for my area, I need range.

For others looking to sell, these bikes would realistically take 4 or more months to sell, it's just a small market.  My local dealer took a year and a half to sell a used DR650 so that's just sort of the bike market (don't get me started on boats) right now.

I am sorry the bike in WA did not work out. I still enjoy riding the bike. Most people up here are looking for bikes. So they will be ready for the riding season. That and motor homes. Anytime there is a day above 40 people are out riding. Its such a niche market here. I see lots of Teslas around and hybrids. More than the last few years. The dealer I got my Zero from only sold 6 bikes last year and we only have two dealers in CT. The other dealer I am mot sure.
   Right now regular at the pump is $2.50-$2.80 depending on location. Can be higher as you head NY way. Diesel is $2.9X or so. Also depends on location. So here people are ok with those prices so the electric is not super attractive yet. When we do go back to $4+ ler gallon they for sure will be wanted and so will scooters.


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[domingo3]

   Right now regular at the pump is $2.50-$2.80 depending on location. Can be higher as you head NY way. Diesel is $2.9X or so. Also depends on location. So here people are ok with those prices so the electric is not super attractive yet. When we do go back to $4+ ler gallon they for sure will be wanted and so will scooters.


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Interesting study on the correlation between gas prices and moto riding. While motorcycle sales do increase when gas prices rise, the more significant effect is that people who already own motorcycles ride them more.  It's not specifically in this study, but I doubt people looking to save gas money are going to look seriously at electric motos, since there are only very limited use cases where a Zero is cheaper to own and operate.   Maybe different if gas prices changes by $20 per gallon rather than $2.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5005806/#!po=44.3750

[Richard230]

   Right now regular at the pump is $2.50-$2.80 depending on location. Can be higher as you head NY way. Diesel is $2.9X or so. Also depends on location. So here people are ok with those prices so the electric is not super attractive yet. When we do go back to $4+ ler gallon they for sure will be wanted and so will scooters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting study on the correlation between gas prices and moto riding. While motorcycle sales do increase when gas prices rise, the more significant effect is that people who already own motorcycles ride them more.  It's not specifically in this study, but I doubt people looking to save gas money are going to look seriously at electric motos, since there are only very limited use cases where a Zero is cheaper to own and operate.   Maybe different if gas prices changes by $20 per gallon rather than $2.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5005806/#!po=44.3750

In my case, I suffered through the "gas crisis" of the mid-1970's, when you just couldn't find gasoline at any price at times. I can remember sitting in my car for a couple of hours in a long line of cars at 5 am in the morning waiting for the gas station to open. I would fill up my car's tank and siphon out some of the fuel to put in my motorcycles and ride them to work.  Everyone was buying small motorcycles and scooters (and crashing them right and left) to get to work. However, the second the "crisis" was over and gas was plentiful again, those small motorcycles and scooters were parked in the back of the garage to rust away, or dumped in the backyard to become flower planters. However, if electric cars or motorcycles were available at that time, people would be buying every one that they could get their hands on and at any price and then dropping them into the used car marked as soon as gas was cheap again. In the U.S. most vehicle owners just love gas stations, where you can refuel you car, get something to eat and a beer to drink. 

I continue to remember those gas-less days and I am ready for their return.  Still waiting. 

[hubert]

Fall 1973, first oil crisis. I was a child, living at that time in Germany. Uhhh, West-Germany! The government decided car driving prohibition every sunday. With some exceptions of course. These sundays were marvelous, with plenty of people cycling everywhere on the highways. These memories are not yet completely washed-out from my neurones. About 2 months later the gvt dropped this driving restriction and everything went on as usual.

Sorry for OT...

[Justin Andrews]

Bit like the petrol strikes in the UK back around 2000, the roads were deserted. Damn I wish I'd had my zero back then.

[goomicoo]

Here in Los Angeles a 2015 S was listed for $6500 and it took almost 2 months to sell. Not a high mileage bike either. I picked up my 2015 DS for under 7K and it has a new 13.0 battery and only 1500 miles. As with anything else, it’s only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. With electric vehicles the battery is what determines value. Crazy expensive to replace so it’s a double edge sword when selling. As a buyer I could care less what you payed for your bike. What is it worth to me?

[MostlyBonkers]

Bit like the petrol strikes in the UK back around 2000, the roads were deserted. Damn I wish I'd had my zero back then.

By the way, how's the new one Justin?. Are you happy to share what you got for your 2015SR?

I suggested that my Zero was worth about £4,500 to my local dealer as a part exchange on a new model.  They could give it a wash and I'm sure someone would be happy to pay £5,000 for it with about 9 months warranty remaining.  It'll have a new rear shock absorber soon too...