Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Low On Cash]

Now that the Victory Empulse has a $10,000 cash back from the factory and remaining bikes are selling for as little as $7,000, I know a lot of riders to include a few Zero guys are looking at them was a second bike, so I thought I would briefly share my findings on the Impulses weakness compared to the Zero.

While the Victory Empulse is an attractive bike with some good features, its falls way short regarding its drive train and electronics when compared to the new generation Zero's - My Victory dealer in Virginia has been dying to sell me one since they were released. Regretfully, even now with $10-12,000 off retail, a rider would be better off looking a low end Zero demo bike at nearly the the same price.

I’ve driven the Empulse possibly a dozen times on different occasions, and each time came back disappointed on its performance, mechanical design and range. The biggest hold back for me from buying one was the “Dreaded Transmission” attempting to sync the motor to the next gear is a real trick with the quick reving motor. You can just forget all your ICE shifting experience, since this is totally different. The tach with all its flashing lights to help you shift, is confusing and in direct sunlight is almost impossible to see. I’m not saying you can’t shift it with some practice, just saying it's not anything like a conventional transmission. My self I could not deal with the clunking every time I moved the throttle, there is no way I’m going listen to that noise.

Making matters worse, the transmission has other problems, the mechanical back lash is totally un-acceptable, by simply adding or letting off the throttle, if felt the transmission was falling apart. This combined with the problems shifting, is why during test drives, the dealer instructs you to just leave it in third gear and drive it like an automatic - its clear that when Brammo designed the gear box (which was not needed) they fell short regarding tolerances. Regretfully, Victory just chose to just re-badge the bike with almost no changes and put her out there.

Another major difference is power and range, for the most part, if you're using your bike to commute, the power is fine. Regarding range which I've seen advertised from 130-140 miles - this is not going to happen. Most of the time as I rode different bikes, the dealers were telling me 50-60 miles, I drove one fully charged 32 miles and used up over half the charge.

Other than the shortcomings of power, range and the transmission, the bike looks good, has decent suspension, rides good and handles well.

I can buy one now for around $8K out the door, but with the fact that Victory has disappeared with the possibility of scarce parts combined with no “Educated” Empulse techs and no real Victory dealers and no trade in value on the back end, raises all the red flags this could be major mistake.

Regards - Mike

[Fred]

A really helpful and informative post. Thanks. It helps reassure me that Zero is the way to go.

Not sure they're really available here in the UK anyway - I've seen an Enertia on eBay but that's it.

[laramie LC4]

thanks.

someone posted that he had picked one up for under $6000 with a level-2 charger. that got me thinking as well that it might be worth the risk. i did a little looking online but had no first hand info, so this was great.

laters,

laramie 

[Adan]

I sold my Brammo Empulse about 6 months ago, after 3 years and 19,000 miles.  It served me well, I had no complaints about it and was generally stoked to be riding it.  When I bought it in 2013 I also test rode the Zero S and felt there was no comparison in quality.  Zero has made great strides since then of course.

My only complaint about the Empulse was the weight.  470 lbs a little too porky for a short trip machine.

When Polaris bought the Empulse and rebadged it Victory, my nearest service center was 50 miles farther away, and they didn't seem to have a clue about the bikes.  So I sold it.

Polaris is obviously dumping stock, but who would buy it with the future of support so uncertain?  It's not like an ice bike that can be serviced most anywhere, if you can't find a specialist, you're out of luck.

I'm now waitin for my Zero S 6.5 to come in.  Very excited to be back on an ebike and one that's about 150 pounds lighter.

[Chocula]

Now that the Victory Empulse has a $10,000 cash back from the factory and remaining bikes are selling for as little as $7,000, I know a lot of riders to include a few Zero guys are looking at them was a second bike, so I thought I would briefly share my findings on the Impulses weakness compared to the Zero.

While the Victory Empulse is an attractive bike with some good features, its falls way short regarding its drive train and electronics when compared to the new generation Zero's - My Victory dealer in Virginia has been dying to sell me one since they were released. Regretfully, even now with $10-12,000 off retail, a rider would be better off looking a low end Zero demo bike at nearly the the same price.

I’ve driven the Empulse possibly a dozen times on different occasions, and each time came back disappointed on its performance, mechanical design and range. The biggest hold back for me from buying one was the “Dreaded Transmission” attempting to sync the motor to the next gear is a real trick with the quick reving motor. You can just forget all your ICE shifting experience, since this is totally different. The tach with all its flashing lights to help you shift, is confusing and in direct sunlight is almost impossible to see. I’m not saying you can’t shift it with some practice, just saying it's not anything like a conventional transmission. My self I could not deal with the clunking every time I moved the throttle, there is no way I’m going listen to that noise.

Making matters worse, the transmission has other problems, the mechanical back lash is totally un-acceptable, by simply adding or letting off the throttle, if felt the transmission was falling apart. This combined with the problems shifting, is why during test drives, the dealer instructs you to just leave it in third gear and drive it like an automatic - its clear that when Brammo designed the gear box (which was not needed) they fell short regarding tolerances. Regretfully, Victory just chose to just re-badge the bike with almost no changes and put her out there.

Another major difference is power and range, for the most part, if you're using your bike to commute, the power is fine. Regarding range which I've seen advertised from 130-140 miles - this is not going to happen. Most of the time as I rode different bikes, the dealers were telling me 50-60 miles, I drove one fully charged 32 miles and used up over half the charge.

Other than the shortcomings of power, range and the transmission, the bike looks good, has decent suspension, rides good and handles well.

I can buy one now for around $8K out the door, but with the fact that Victory has disappeared with the possibility of scarce parts combined with no “Educated” Empulse techs and no real Victory dealers and no trade in value on the back end, raises all the red flags this could be major mistake.

Regards - Mike

As an owner of a 2014 Empulse R and now a 2016 Empulse TT, my experience has been quite contrary to yours.  Shifting took a few hours use to get used to, after that it has been as smooth as shifting on my ICE bikes.  The drive train lash is no worse than on my ICE bikes, it is just more noticeable as you are not slipping the clutch and having everything else rattling as you do on an ICE.  With some experience, your throttle hand learns to smooth things out, and rocking back a tiny bit when you stop takes all the slack out so no lash off the line.

The transmission issue has been beat to death already, if you don't like them, don't get a bike with one.  I have only ridden the 2014 zero, and I found the Empulse to be much more enjoyable, hence my purchase of the Empulse, which surprised me as I went in expecting to like the Zero better.  Acceleration in 3rd is not that exciting, but you DO have a transmission, should you enjoy more spirited starts.  I like the transmission, shifting almost as often as on my ICE and I use the gearing to control regen braking in a similar manner to engine braking in the canyons.  A 2nd gear down grade for me on my ICE is usually a 2nd gear down grade for me on the Empulse, etc.

As for support, that will be a big question.  Probably no worse off than pre-2013 zeros, but that still stinks.  I can't say I would recommend one at this point if you are not comfortable taking electrical things apart, and the current pricing reflects that.

[Low On Cash]

Chocula thanks for the reply and sharing your thoughts on the Empulse.

Regarding the transmission, everyone I spoke to who owns an Empulse or has driven one, dislikes the way it shifts, regretfully it will never shift as dependable as a conventional gas / transmission bike, since due to the fact the electric motor has little inherita, like a gas engine, split second advances in the throttle sends the motor rpm soaring making it difficult to sync the motor to the bikes speed. I figured that I drove 8 different Empulse's and every one had the back lash problem, so there is definitely an issue with free-play in the drive line. For myself, it would be less painful to slit my wrists than deal with this incompatibility of the motor / transmission and the back lash which is the reason I never pulled the trigger.  I'm certain that Victory knew the transmission was coming out of the bike and elected not to fix it. Regarding using the transmission for additional regen - one is better off adding regen electronically rather than mechanically with a transmission, no matter how you look at it the transmission and clutch id extra baggage for the Empulse.

As I mentioned, with the new Victory pricing if a guy wants to get his foot in the door on electric bikes its an opportunity to do so at a low cost, but he has to weigh the fact of little to no support and parts scarcity in the calculations.

Thanks 

[Adan]

I got along fine with the Empulse transmission.  It wasn't like an ICE bike, it was it's own thing, but I found it very useful.  Was the usefulness worth the extra complexity and weight?  For me, probably not, because I was never trying to wring maximum performance out of the bike. 

The bottom line is, my choice of Empulse over Zero in 2013 was driven by factors other than the transmission or lack thereof.  And the same is true today in my choice of a Zero over an Empulse.

[grmarks]

My 2 cents worth. I would never buy anything electric with gears, they are just not needed, add complexity and price to manufacture. Put the extra cost into a more powerful motor and controller.
Reno's 2016/2017 formula E car is an improvement on the previous one, has a better motor and no gears and is lighter to the point that they have to use ballast to meet minimum weight requirements. The thing is  they can put the ballast where it suits the current track best.
The cars started with 5 gears, then reno went to 2 gears, now none (or one depending on how you see it), and each season its the car to beat.
No gears is one of the things I love about electric vehicles. 

[Fred]

The only problem I see without gears is that ridiculously large rear sprocket that spoils the looks of the Zero bikes a bit. Worth it for the advantages of course.

[Ndm]

I have a 2013s and the victory in my opinion would be an upgrade ( suspension, BRAKES, and personal comfort) as for comparison to a 2015+ ZERO I don't think it would be a good trade off, especially if you are talking about an R version, they got a lot of things right, the biggest area I think zero is lacking is native j1772 charging at a minimum of 3.3kw (not as a $2500 upgrade but stock) I know you can buy various aftermarket chargers but I have a problem with dropping another wad of cash after paying 20k for a commuter bike

[Low On Cash]

My 2 cents worth. I would never buy anything electric with gears, they are just not needed, add complexity and price to manufacture. Put the extra cost into a more powerful motor and controller.
Reno's 2016/2017 formula E car is an improvement on the previous one, has a better motor and no gears and is lighter to the point that they have to use ballast to meet minimum weight requirements. The thing is  they can put the ballast where it suits the current track best.
The cars started with 5 gears, then reno went to 2 gears, now none (or one depending on how you see it), and each season its the car to beat.
No gears is one of the things I love about electric vehicles.

At least for myself - regardless if an electric bike needs a transmission or not, I never had a problem with the fact the Empulse had a transmission, in fact I enjoy bikes with mechanical options, having the ability to select your own gear ratio could provide a range advantage to an electric motorcycle since after a certain motor speed drag increase - also every motor made has an optimal rpm as well.  Also when just cruising around town using third only in a clutch-less manner worked fine. 

Tesla relized  the advantages of having a 2 speed transmission but failed to manufacture a box that could withstand the torque of the motor(s), and finally gave up.  BMW was successful in designing and installing a 2 speed box in their Gas / Electric BMW I8. The two speed gear box offered the I8 exceptional low gear speed for starting - yet improved high speed performance above 100 mph.

While there is little doubt the Zero offers many advantages over the Empulse - If a guy could live with the uncertainty Victory closing down production, I feel the Empulse at the new price could be an asset to a guy who is looking for hobby bike or someone wanting to test the waters with electric bikes.

Regards

[MrDude_1]

My 2 cents worth. I would never buy anything electric with gears, they are just not needed, add complexity and price to manufacture. Put the extra cost into a more powerful motor and controller.
Reno's 2016/2017 formula E car is an improvement on the previous one, has a better motor and no gears and is lighter to the point that they have to use ballast to meet minimum weight requirements. The thing is  they can put the ballast where it suits the current track best.
The cars started with 5 gears, then reno went to 2 gears, now none (or one depending on how you see it), and each season its the car to beat.
No gears is one of the things I love about electric vehicles.

At least for myself - regardless if an electric bike needs a transmission or not, I never had a problem with the fact the Empulse had a transmission, in fact I enjoy bikes with mechanical options, having the ability to select your own gear ratio could provide a range advantage to an electric motorcycle since after a certain motor speed drag increase - also every motor made has an optimal rpm as well.  Also when just cruising around town using third only in a clutch-less manner worked fine. 

Tesla relized  the advantages of having a 2 speed transmission but failed to manufacture a box that could withstand the torque of the motor(s), and finally gave up.  BMW was successful in designing and installing a 2 speed box in their Gas / Electric BMW I8. The two speed gear box offered the I8 exceptional low gear speed for starting - yet improved high speed performance above 100 mph.

While there is little doubt the Zero offers many advantages over the Empulse - If a guy could live with the uncertainty Victory closing down production, I feel the Empulse at the new price could be an asset to a guy who is looking for hobby bike or someone wanting to test the waters with electric bikes.

Regards

This mirrors my own thinking on the matter... Done correctly, a 2spd is better than doubling the amps... but if you cant do it correctly, dont do it at all..