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Author Topic: Range on a 2011 DS -- 58 a unicorn or is my battery dying?  (Read 1191 times)

david.i.wells

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Range on a 2011 DS -- 58 a unicorn or is my battery dying?
« on: April 06, 2016, 10:30:53 PM »

Was considering a battery rebuild, but have come across a statement that my battery may actually be good.  The manual states that I could get as much as 58 miles on a charge and currently I'm getting close to 25.  I had thought that maybe I had some serious battery degradation.  When I posted looking for someone's dead battery to cannibalize from a gentleman posted that my battery must be ok to get 25, cuz when the magazines tested the bike in 2011 that's about all it got.

So, is my battery dying, or is the 58 miles a unicorn?
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Richard230

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Re: Range on a 2011 DS -- 58 a unicorn or is my battery dying?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2016, 03:51:57 AM »

Was considering a battery rebuild, but have come across a statement that my battery may actually be good.  The manual states that I could get as much as 58 miles on a charge and currently I'm getting close to 25.  I had thought that maybe I had some serious battery degradation.  When I posted looking for someone's dead battery to cannibalize from a gentleman posted that my battery must be ok to get 25, cuz when the magazines tested the bike in 2011 that's about all it got.

So, is my battery dying, or is the 58 miles a unicorn?

The 58 mile range estimate by Zero is definitely a unicorn.   ;)  I have never heard of anyone riding a 2011 Zero who every went that far.  The longest distance I have heard of is about 35 miles, ridden on surface streets, likely at 35 mph.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

ColoPaul

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Re: Range on a 2011 DS -- 58 a unicorn or is my battery dying?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2016, 06:19:30 AM »

Yeah, sorry David, I also vote "unicorn".

Zero's published 2011 specs:  58 miles (under ? conditions) and 43 miles (EPA UDDS)
Zero's published 2012 (ZF6) specs:  76 miles (EPA UDDS)

By way of comparison, the best I got out of my ZF6 (which I bought new) was 67 miles, under unrealistic conditions (speeds <35mph, few stops, flat roads, etc).  Getting the UDDS rating of 76 seems next to impossible.   So I would suspect it would be equivalently hard to hit the 43 UDDS rating for your 2011S...  and 58 miles?  Please.

Richard's story of 35 miles being top end, again under unrealistic conditions, seems about right.
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protomech

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Re: Range on a 2011 DS -- 58 a unicorn or is my battery dying?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2016, 10:06:31 AM »

Yeah, sorry David, I also vote "unicorn".

Zero's published 2011 specs:  58 miles (under ? conditions) and 43 miles (EPA UDDS)
Zero's published 2012 (ZF6) specs:  76 miles (EPA UDDS)

By way of comparison, the best I got out of my ZF6 (which I bought new) was 67 miles, under unrealistic conditions (speeds <35mph, few stops, flat roads, etc).  Getting the UDDS rating of 76 seems next to impossible.   So I would suspect it would be equivalently hard to hit the 43 UDDS rating for your 2011S...  and 58 miles?  Please.

Richard's story of 35 miles being top end, again under unrealistic conditions, seems about right.
2010 Zero S got about 50 miles of range at 25 mph in ideal conditions. 2011 Zero S has about 10% more range than 2010.
https://web.archive.org/web/20101222210751/http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/zero-s-2010/range-cruising.php

Similar with a 2012 S ZF9 gets about 140 miles. I saw about 100 miles on my 2012 S at best, but typically 50-80 miles depending on riding speed.
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ColoPaul

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Re: Range on a 2011 DS -- 58 a unicorn or is my battery dying?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2016, 04:35:15 AM »

2010 Zero S got about 50 miles of range at 25 mph in ideal conditions. 2011 Zero S has about 10% more range than 2010.
https://web.archive.org/web/20101222210751/http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/zero-s-2010/range-cruising.php

Similar with a 2012 S ZF9 gets about 140 miles. I saw about 100 miles on my 2012 S at best, but typically 50-80 miles depending on riding speed.

I remember that purported "140-mile-on-a-single-charge" video - something very fishy about it - if you watch the battery charge on the display, it starts at full, drops to 3 bars at the 2:28 mark, but mysteriously has returned to 8 bars at the 3:38 mark, where it drops again until the end.   Looks to me like he really got "140-miles-on-two-charges".

Your 100 mile 2012S (you have a ZF9) ride matches my observations exactly (67 miles on a ZF6).   Neither of us made Zero's published UDDS spec. (114 ZF9 / 76 ZF6).

Interesting link on Zero's test conditions for their 58 mile ride, I had never seen that.  Can't say I'd call it "real-world", and for the purpose of answering the OP's question, I'd still say he shouldn't expect to be getting 58 or even 43 miles on a charge.  35ish if you milk it, and 25ish under real conditions seem spot on.
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protomech

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Re: Range on a 2011 DS -- 58 a unicorn or is my battery dying?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2016, 08:48:36 AM »

2010 Zero S got about 50 miles of range at 25 mph in ideal conditions. 2011 Zero S has about 10% more range than 2010.
https://web.archive.org/web/20101222210751/http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/zero-s-2010/range-cruising.php

Similar with a 2012 S ZF9 gets about 140 miles. I saw about 100 miles on my 2012 S at best, but typically 50-80 miles depending on riding speed.
I remember that purported "140-mile-on-a-single-charge" video - something very fishy about it - if you watch the battery charge on the display, it starts at full, drops to 3 bars at the 2:28 mark, but mysteriously has returned to 8 bars at the 3:38 mark, where it drops again until the end.   Looks to me like he really got "140-miles-on-two-charges".
Interesting, I didn't catch that before.

The video does note that "[t]he only non-stock function was the fuel gauge, which was not calibrated properly since this bike was used for other testing purposes last weekend."

It's possible the bike was keyed off, which would seems to cause a SOC recalculation, or at least display update. I remember seeing several times that I would lose or gain a bar on my 2012 after keying it off and back on, depending on ambient temperature and a few other things.

Any any rate, the speeds listed are what I would expect to be required to make 140 miles on a 2012 ZF9, and would certainly expect more than 70 miles.

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Your 100 mile 2012S (you have a ZF9) ride matches my observations exactly (67 miles on a ZF6).   Neither of us made Zero's published UDDS spec. (114 ZF9 / 76 ZF6).
True enough, but electric motorcycle testing is the epitome of YMWV. My best-case range was two days of commuting (50 miles at mostly 40-55 mph) followed by 35-40 miles of 20-30 mph riding and 10-15 miles of 10-15 mph while I tried to kill the bike. I eventually stopped the range test at 11 pm and went to sleep with the bike still at 5% SOC. UDDS averages closer to 35 mph, including very limited forays up to 55 mph. I felt Zero's range claims were accurate for the test in question, even if that test was lighter than my typical riding.

Quote
Interesting link on Zero's test conditions for their 58 mile ride, I had never seen that.  Can't say I'd call it "real-world", and for the purpose of answering the OP's question, I'd still say he shouldn't expect to be getting 58 or even 43 miles on a charge.  35ish if you milk it, and 25ish under real conditions seem spot on.
Agree with all of the above; the "maximum range" claim on the pre-2012 bikes and the 2012 140 mile test are basically riding it like a glorified bicycle. At least they were relatively open with their testing protocol before the MIC standardized on the UDDS and the constant speed highway test.
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