Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[rollandelliott]

thinking of buying this above for $400 to $500 and putting on my ds2010 to increase range.

If I bought this dustbin fairing, can I expect a 40% increase in fuel/range, or in my case range since I would be using an electric motorcycle?

 I just want to make sure it is worth it before I spend the cash.

I know each motorcycle is differetn, but any guesstmate is appreciated.

this web site shows a graph of this ferring
http://www.schultzengineering.us/

it says at 45mph bike consumes 2500 watts

My zero 2010 ds gets about 23miles and has a 60amp battery so thats 2.6amps per mile times 48v battery is 125 watts per mile??

I don't think my math is right? how can I look at that graph and guestmate how much range my zero ds2010 will improve?

[Electric Terry]

Kraig Shultz is a friend of mine.  The work he and Craig Vetter have done in the world of aerodynamics is amazing!  However, I would upgrade the bike before you start trying to made brackets and such on a 2010.

For about the same price or perhaps a little more, you should be able to upgrade to a 2012 DS and more than double (ZF6) or more than triple (ZF9) your range rather easily.  With the used 2013's on the market pushing the price of the 2012's down even lower, this would be my first suggestion.  Sell your 2010 and use the upgrade money to get a 2012 ZF6 at least.

If you want to do aerodynamics then, it would make sense.  But doing all that work to add 5-10 miles on the highway doesn't make much sense to me.

[Burton]

Also worth noting, even Kraig himself says the dustbin is a bad idea. Look at the posture you have to maintain for it to work. :/

His newest creation involves a custom frame so he can sit lower and is fully shrouded from the wind without having to hunch over.

[rollandelliott]

I do like his latest low design but I also think there is a safety advantage of being able to see further down the road when you are sifted upright

His web site says exactly opposite of what you are recommending though
That money is better spent on aerodynamics than on more bTteries

Any other thoughts on that graph
If I can get 10 more miles I would be happy
However if I only got 5 more I'd be disappointed

He bike is about as heavy as I want it
I don't like the increased weight of the current models

[Burton]

Experiment time I guess.

2010 DS used trade in value is 2785, Lets round it off to 3k for private sale.

A used 2012 DS ZF6 cost 6000 right now on cycle trader

You claim 23 mile range on your 2010, zero claims a max of 50 but who knows what test they used.
Zero also claims the 2012 ZF6 gets as much as 75 miles at city EPA UDDS or 42 miles with mixed highway / commuting at 70mph.

I will assume your range now is highway / commuting speeds for comparison.

At a cost of $500 you will get a hypothetical range of 32.3 miles (9.2 miles), This doesn't take into account the cost of a doctor to fix your broken back since you will have to be crouching 100% of the time to get this range increase or the time you will spend fixing the cowl to your bike.
Cost effectiveness per mile is $54.35 / mile increase if just looking at the cost of the fairing.

At a cost of around $2000~$3000 you will get a tested range of 42 miles (19+ miles) not requiring you to break your back and no time spent modifying the bike to get the range.
Cost effectiveness per mile is $105.26~$157.89

So basically $50~100 more per mile but I would argue this amount is less given the hidden costs associated with going to a dustbin fairing. I have done a lot of modification to my bikes and can tell you there is always hidden costs involved.
The time you spend modifying the bike,
the money you end up spending on special things you didn't realize you need,
the time spent thinking about how to modify the bike,
stuff breaking after hitting your first serious bump in the road,
in the case of the dustbin fairing having to move your rear set backward to be able to fully crouch,
is the windshield bubble included or is it extra?,
and again the big one for me is my back I am young but I can't ride too long crouched over like that, esp not for 32 miles.

Before making the decision I would try to identify all the above costs and add them into the cost of the fairing then run the numbers again if you think the idea of a 2012DS is something you want.

I won't be one to complain if you take the project on. I love modifying my bikes, it is my hobby to some extent and the cost of doing so doesn't enter the picture if I am enjoying myself doing it. I would like to see your range increase as a result of doing it if you do go this route.

[rollandelliott]

maybe I should just buy a recumbant for $6000
http://www.deltabike.us/delta-x2-1.htm

[Burton]

maybe I should just buy a recumbant for $6000
http://www.deltabike.us/delta-x2-1.htm

I know Kraig has his own VIN number on the bike, but I also know the bike is considered a project bike and had to be registered as one. I do also know he has kit parts available for the frame on his page but I don't know of him actually selling the whole bike for 6k and the page you link is a concept bike page / stats.

Give him an email

[rollandelliott]

Kraig emailed me and said about a 20% improvement if I used the dustbin and another 5% if I used a extremely small tail fairing.

This surprised me since the graph shows the dustbin gets the same performance as his recumbant machine pictured below


and if that is the case......it makes me wonder if the vetter fairings really get a 50% improvement. After all they look pretty similar to the kraig schultz designs.

the clamed 50% improvement was what got me interested in this aerodynamic stuff in the first place, now I wonder if that number is just pie in the sky?

[togo]

Vetter only claims energy efficiency doubles *at high speed*.

And you are missing entirely the large tail portion of the aerodynamic equation. it's not just the high pressure at the front that causes drag- the low pressure suction at the rear is often a larger factor.

[Killroy]

Also worth noting, even Kraig himself says the dustbin is a bad idea. Look at the posture you have to maintain for it to work. :/

His newest creation involves a custom frame so he can sit lower and is fully shrouded from the wind without having to hunch over.

The Vetter fairing is just a dustbin with a turret that is taller for upright riding.  Vetter says that the key to good streamlining is a good tail/seat back fairing, which most vintage dustbin bikes ignore.