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[manlytom]

Hi all,

being just shy of 7000km I run into problems with my 2011S again. The first time around it was diagnosed with Zero support that the motor was not good. brushes somewhat strongly worn and in fact a replacement of the motor seemed to fix it. Within that we tried the controller and throttle.
Now about 3000km riding bike stopped again. Looked at the brushes and they had uneven wear and did not look to great. Zero sent me a new brush holder and brushes (matched for same resistance).
Replaced it and still no good !
So what happens is:

switch on bike, contactor switches on with a "clack" and no warning => good
controller (alltrax) LED blinks once => 0-5k throttle => OK then turns green
twist throttle with bike rear wheel raised => wheel turns slowly not gathering any real speed
controller LED goes yellow
check pack voltage on alltrax btw B+ and B- => 57.5V => OK
check voltage range btw B- and alltrax Pin2 (should be 0 to 5V closed to open) => is 0 to 3.14V
check throttle => 0 to 5K resistance, relatively linear (first 60% or so) , compare to another throttle same resistance and voltage range ==> believe throttles are OK (pls comment)
next check:
check voltage btw B+ and M- (should be throttle closed 0V and open pack voltage):
throttle closed; controller light green; voltage 0 => Ok
throttle open; controller light yellow; voltage 0.3V or so. no real change !!?? WTF?,  motor spins slowly   

further check with motor leads disconnected:
throttle closed; controller light green; voltage 26.2V => ? definitely not 0
throttle open; controller light yellow; voltage 57.5V => pack voltage => as it should be.

used another controller with SAME results. Used another throttle with same results. Used another brush holder/brushes with same results. Note that replacement parts had been used before - so all could even be bad i any combination. 

seems to point to the MBB and guide shows "MBB continuity test". However do not have these docs.   

- so a long story - still no working bike. any ideas left ? welcome them. thx

[Doctorbass]

It should be that there is some unusual electrical resistance between the battery and controller.

did you measured the controller input voltage when you have your wheel spinning slowly as you say?

On my 2011 zero, the led stay green all the time and also when i have the motor spinning. It goes yellow only at full rpm ( no load)

You should really check if your controller sont hvae any significan voltage drop at the main input when your motor spin... a faulty connection or contactor bad resistance might be the problem

when your motor spin do you have any obvious bad smell coming from the motor?



Doc

[ed5000]

Have you tried connecting your throttle directly to the alltrax controller?  Unplug the small spade connectors 2 and 3 (on the alltrax) and run two new wires from the throttle.  Those two wires are reversible (no polarity) since the throttle is a potentiometer.  Try leaving the number 1 wire from the main bike board so your safeties will still work.  That's the permission to run terminal (key switch, etc). 

If the bike is on a test stand you could use a 5k ohm potentiometer too.  If the main bike board won't give you a green light on the Alltrax, you could supply your own signal (like the pack voltage) to the number one spade connector.  This will bypass the main bike board for testing purposes but only do this with the bike on a test stand.

You're lucky Zero is working with you on this problem.  My 2010 DS is still under warranty (it was bought new in Dec 2011) and it needs a new Alltrax controller and Zero has completely written me off.  I guess they think I'm trying to get a free controller out of them.  Yeah, like I'm going to leave my bike in pieces all over my garage so I can score a free controller!  And get this - my bike has been down since October 2012!

[manlytom]

It should be that there is some unusual electrical resistance between the battery and controller.

did you measured the controller input voltage when you have your wheel spinning slowly as you say?

On my 2011 zero, the led stay green all the time and also when i have the motor spinning. It goes yellow only at full rpm ( no load)

You should really check if your controller sont hvae any significan voltage drop at the main input when your motor spin... a faulty connection or contactor bad resistance might be the problem

when your motor spin do you have any obvious bad smell coming from the motor?



Doc

Hi Doc.

good points. go from the back. Motor does not smell at all, just turns with a growling noise the rear wheel slowly when on  a stand. belt off and motor turns a a single speed. no noticeable acceleration. and I am careful as without load the motor would spin like grazy ... but it does not.

pack voltage straight away drops from 57.5V to 20ish volts when I apply throttle. This is between B+ / B- and between B+ / M- on the controller terminals.

So lets finally hunt that contactor down, I learned from you that it is quite a job to get it out of the battery ...

Funny though that 3000kms ago we suspected briefly the contactor but a new motor fixed the problem. This time the brushes had quite an uneven wear as well....

thanks

[jateureka]

Hi Manlytom,
What ended up being the cause of the problem and how did you fix it?

[manlytom]

Hi Manlytom,
What ended up being the cause of the problem and how did you fix it?

Hi. The underlying reason just seemed to be some dirt in the motor, blowing air through the motor followed by electronics conduct spray it has fixed it.

PS. The other problems in above post was me pulling the whole bike apart and not plugging back in the controller connections properly.

[jateureka]

Well, the bike you sold me that you described as being in "Mint condition....Just hop on and ride..." Turned out to have no brake pads, with the rears down to the backing plate and scoring the rear disc and the fronts weren't much better.

Now that I have replaced those, and the bike is actually rideable, I find the motor is still cutting out because you never bothered to replace the faulty contactor!!!

I guess your definition of "Mint condition.....Just hop on and ride...." is quite different to mine....