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[mrwilsn]

I just found out that soon we may have even more places to charge up! Batteries that enable longer distances without needing to charge are great but if the charging infrastructure was solid enough then we could go anywhere in the country even on a bike with a short range.

The Verge: Electric cars need more charging stations, and the White House wants to help. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwo7uewiw

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[benswing]

This is very good news!


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[MrDude_1]

Batteries that enable longer distances without needing to charge are great but if the charging infrastructure was solid enough then we could go anywhere in the country even on a bike with a short range.

... if you were willing to stop that often and wait to recharge.
unless you're talking about recharging in the same minute or so that it takes to pull up, slide a CC and refill the tank, no. Charging doesnt work for everyone.

I can go from Charleston,SC to Dallas in a day on an ICE. Doing the same with an electric is impractical.
And yes everyone will reply thats "extreme" and silly...  but thats what people do with sport touring bikes sometimes.

so then I will ride less, and just haul ass on the backroads at super-legal speeds... and everyone will say "you shouldnt go that fast anyway" and "thats stupid"... but they neednt worry because once again, the battery would go flat long before the end of the ride... nevermind the fact that anyone going over 70 will be pulling away (sure the bike can hit 85 fully charged, but halfway thorugh the ride id be lucky to hold 70)


so larger batteries are needed for sport touring or sportbikes... but if you just putz around at legal speeds, and dont mind stopping for forty-five mins to an hour for awhile to recharge at 1c then sure... just need more electrical outlets they call chargers.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I didn't know you were such an Ironbutt, MrDude: Charleston, SC to Dallas, TX is 1100 miles. (irony alert)

Two days is perfectly reasonable for such a run on a good touring ICE motorcycle, and the Zero with a Supercharger can do it in two and a half.

This is good news, plain and simple.

[mrwilsn]

... if you were willing to stop that often and wait to recharge.

Duh.  If you can't make it to the next charging station it doesn't matter if you are willing to wait 30 seconds or 30 hours to recharge.  If there are lots of charging stations then even with a small battery you will make it to the next station and you wait while your bike charges...regardless of how long that takes.

recharging in the same minute or so that it takes to pull up, slide a CC and refill the tank

Talk about misleading....I have never filled up an ICE vehicle in 60 seconds in my life!  In fact...the EPA limits the maximum flow rate for gasoline in the U.S. to 10 gallons per minute (GPM).  Most stations are somewhere between 5-10 GPM.  Theoretically you could fill a motorcycle tank in 60 seconds but if you think it can be done then you have never filled up an ICE motorcycle in your life.  I never just stick the nozzle in the tank and set the autofill and walk away.  You have to stand right there and carefully fill the tank to keep gas from splashing all over the tank and you can't actually fill at the max GPM.  For a motorcycle you are probably closer to 2-3 GPM...granted some motorcycle tanks are that small but VERY few people would ever even try to take the kind of trip where this becomes relevant on that kind of bike.  All other things being equal...pulling up...putting down the kickstand...turning the bike off...whipping out the credit card etc....and just counting from the time gas starts flowing to the time it stops flowing you are realistically going to take 3-5 minutes.  But all things aren't equal...because once I start charging I don't need to stand next to the bike.  I can walk away and use the bathroom or get some food or just stretch my legs...all things I was going to do on the ICE bike too but I had to wait to finish filling the gas tank.

unless you're talking about recharging in the same minute or so that it takes to pull up, slide a CC and refill the tank

Minute no...in a reasonable time... yes...of course...which is why I said

if the charging infrastructure was solid enough

I didn't say if there were enough charging stations or they were spaced closer together or in the right spots next to major roadways...solid enough...which was deliberate because there are multiple factors...like distance between stations, station location and charging speed...all of those things have to come together to make it "solid".

EV batteries being sold today can handle much higher charge rates than the infrastructure is providing.  The batteries used by Zero, for example, could handle at least 5C (yes, currently limited to 1C).  For a 10kWH battery (nominal...not max) that means 50kW and the pack can be charged in 12 minutes and I can go take a leak and buy a sandwich or a bag of chips while it's charging.

I can go from Charleston,SC to Dallas in a day on an ICE. Doing the same with an electric is impractical.
And yes everyone will reply thats "extreme" and silly...  but thats what people do with sport touring bikes sometimes.

OK? So were talking Iron Butt (i.e. greater than 1K miles in a day) and somehow my statement about being able to go anywhere in the country if the charging infrastructure is solid enough has turned into a comparison between ICE and electric?  I didn't say "ALL we need" is more chargers to be just as good as ICE....I didn't even mention ICE at all...or the amount of time it would take you to "go anywhere in the country".

But fine... you like your ass hard and anything but a nice hard ass just doesn't do it for you 

Well...in that case...it's not a bigger battery that's needed...a battery that is more energy dense is needed but more importantly you need better aerodynamics.  You didn't say it but you are clearly using Zero as the benchmark when you talk about going 85 mph fully charged etc...everyone on this site does....and why not since they are one of the most (if not the most) serious players in the game right now and the site is dominated by Zero riders.  In that case, it's not a fair comparison to pit a naked commuter bike to a touring bike with a fairing.  Zero could make a bike that could give you the hard ass you crave but it would be expensive and you would still need the "solid charging infrastructure" to do it.  Even with a battery and aerodynamics that can take you 300 highway miles on a charge you still need the solid charging infrastructure because if it takes 15 hours to charge you still aren't gonna do those 1K miles in one day.  But even with the current infrastructure (1 year ago infrastructure actually) @Electric Terry has already proven that Iron Butt rides can be done on an electric bike with the right aero.  And @benswing is pulling 500 mile days this year without any improvement in aero aside from the commuter windscreen.

More charging infrastructure with faster charge rates is what will turn the tides.  Range anxiety needs to be dealt with first (i.e. the fear that you won't make it to the next charging station).  Once that is cured we can start to work on minimizing the time the trip takes...actually they need to happen in parallel.  If the charging infrastructure was solid enough then Zero would be more inclined to build that touring bike and people would buy it even if it was more expensive than an ICE touring bike.

[MrDude_1]

not going to point out each point, but you even said the GPM flow of most pumps is 5-10 gallons.

my largest bike tank is 4 gal. the HawkGT only holds about 2.7 gal if my memory is correct...  so I stop, I fill without stepping off the bike, and i go.

[mrwilsn]

not going to point out each point, but you even said the GPM flow of most pumps is 5-10 gallons.

my largest bike tank is 4 gal. the HawkGT only holds about 2.7 gal if my memory is correct...  so I stop, I fill without stepping off the bike, and i go.

You got me.  I don't know what I was thinking with this whole electric thing.  Stupid Obama trying to get more people to drive electric by guaranteeing loans for charging infrastructure...just more big government picking winners and losers. 

Anyone know where I can get a used HawkGT?  And a stock broker that can help me buy as many shares as I can afford in Koch Industries? 

[protomech]

Talk about misleading....I have never filled up an ICE vehicle in 60 seconds in my life!  In fact...the EPA limits the maximum flow rate for gasoline in the U.S. to 10 gallons per minute (GPM).  Most stations are somewhere between 5-10 GPM.  Theoretically you could fill a motorcycle tank in 60 seconds but if you think it can be done then you have never filled up an ICE motorcycle in your life.  I never just stick the nozzle in the tank and set the autofill and walk away.  You have to stand right there and carefully fill the tank to keep gas from splashing all over the tank and you can't actually fill at the max GPM.  For a motorcycle you are probably closer to 2-3 GPM...granted some motorcycle tanks are that small but VERY few people would ever even try to take the kind of trip where this becomes relevant on that kind of bike.  All other things being equal...pulling up...putting down the kickstand...turning the bike off...whipping out the credit card etc....and just counting from the time gas starts flowing to the time it stops flowing you are realistically going to take 3-5 minutes.  But all things aren't equal...because once I start charging I don't need to stand next to the bike.  I can walk away and use the bathroom or get some food or just stretch my legs...all things I was going to do on the ICE bike too but I had to wait to finish filling the gas tank.

One of the most recent times I filled up my VFR, the pump was flowing at ~ 0.8 GPM. At 45 mpg, that's still really fast! 36 miles per minute fueling, 2.8 minutes per 100 miles ...

Even a really fast DCQC on a large battery bike - say 30 minutes to 80% for a 200 mile bike - will fill at 5-6 miles per minute, or almost 19 minutes per 100 miles.

But even "really fast" felt very long and annoying to fill 5 gallons of gas. And yes, that's an abnormal case .. there was clearly something wrong with the pump. But I suspect there's a non-linear relationship between the speed of replenishing range and happiness..

If my choices every 150-200 miles are babysitting a pump for 5 minutes or taking a 30 minute break .. I'll take the break.

[quixotic]

not going to point out each point, but you even said the GPM flow of most pumps is 5-10 gallons.

my largest bike tank is 4 gal. the HawkGT only holds about 2.7 gal if my memory is correct...  so I stop, I fill without stepping off the bike, and i go.

You got me.  I don't know what I was thinking with this whole electric thing.  Stupid Obama trying to get more people to drive electric by guaranteeing loans for charging infrastructure...just more big government picking winners and losers. 

Anyone know where I can get a used HawkGT?  And a stock broker that can help me buy as many shares as I can afford in Koch Industries?

Good point!   

[Richard230]

My personal problem is that even spending 5 minutes at a gas station makes me antsy. Spending 30 minutes or an hour (or longer) while my electric motorcycle recharges would drive me crazy.  I just want to get back on my bike and keep moving on to my destination. Plus, in addition to range anxiety regarding getting to the next recharging station, there is also the concern about if the station still working, or if it is, it might be blocked by another EV recharging while its owner is watching a movie or eating a meal at a local restaurant (or plugging in and then going to work at an office nearby for 10 hours, as is the case near where I used to work). So I will continue to use my IC motorcycles for long trips and my Zero for performing my chores or visiting nearby relatives or friends.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Electric motorcycle touring for the foreseeable future is definitely not like traditional motorcycle touring. It's partly a new activity that has a different set of focuses and stresses. The range and charge anxieties must be managed but they are counterweighted by a smoother more relaxing ride.

It's slightly closer to touring on a bicycle or a lower spec'd scooter, being more evenly paced. I think if you plan around the constraints and set the right expectations, the 400-500 mile days can be covered enjoyably. What Terry, Ben, Elektrogirl, and a couple of others have done is pioneering, but we haven't seen it demonstrated as a regular practice yet to compare with existing motorcycle touring.

I'd been planning to do this already but am still dealing with circumstantial setbacks. I certainly hope for a late season exercise before November. My expectations are set by about 70,000 miles on a V-Strom 650 so a steady relentless pace to cover miles comfortably and have the ability to really look at the scenery I think works for this goal.

I experienced two full days so far at a 400 mile per day pace, and think this will work fine. I'm trying to enhance my ride a bit more for this but every adjustment will be commoditizable.