Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[modeselector]

Hello,

I am a new member to this forum after stalking for awhile.  Not an eBike owner yet but wanting to explore the possibility of owning one in next 12 months.

One thing that stands out for me (as a member of several forums) is the "general" respect shown towards each other and the willingness to share knowledge.   I appreciate this.

I apologize in advance for being so electrical illiterate (after contemplating what some may find as basic questions).  Hopefully this topic will help others as well and serve as a place where others can ask questions too.

The way I understand it, charging a Zero utilizing the US standard two prong plug on left frame charges the bike from empty in about 10ish hours for '13 or newer DS.

Let's say bike has the optional Power Tank-I assume all the batteries are in series so one would use this same frame plug and essentially nothing is different (except charge times of course)?

Here is where things get even more blurry for me:

Let's say buy bike has the optional Zero charge tank.  Same plug?

I may have to travel beyond the range of bike.  Is there an extension cord / gauge /length that seems to work the best when using this factory frame plug?

Again related to traveling, I have never used an outlet at an RV park or vending machine.  Is this a faster charge?  Is there a certain adapter people carry for said above extension cable?

[Erasmo]

You can't have both, it's either power tank or charge tank.

If you have the charge tank you should still be able to charge with the normal onboard charger but for faster charging you need to plug in the tank:



The charge tank is plug and play on a charging station if the station has a cord. Depending on your location you might need to bring your own cable for a charging station.

If you wish to charge at a RV park you need to bring your own cable and a converter.

Qua extension cords you can use a normal outdoor extension cord for the side charger, just make sure it can handle the power and expect a little voltage drop when using it.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

RV parks typically offer the NEMA 14-50 plug. There are adapter cables available. They offer 50 amps at 220V which is more capacity (at least 8kW) than the Charge Tank can accommodate (same as one Elcon - 4kW). The DigiNow supercharger right now is the best bet for RV charging.

Ref. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094708_electric-vehicles-in-rv-campgrounds-what-you-need-to-know

I'm unsure what to recommend for length as I haven't tried this often enough, but 15 feet seems like it should be enough for most scenarios. I have been in a situation where I had to reach a fixed-placement plug though and found my onboard RV cable too short (overall 8 feet but I'm using the external Elcon arrangement).

Speaking of Elcons, if you have a power tank, an external charger is not out of the question, just not as convenient as a built-in charger. For all-day range, a faster charger is worth more than the range from an extra battery pack. The battery pack just extends your range between stations by 25%.

[modeselector]

Thanks for the link.  I did read Ben's article awhile back and reading it again was good.

As a non EV owner (yet), I get twisted with all the acronyms/terminology.  I wish there was a simple picture with descriptions of these and how it relates to Zero / eBike:
 

EVSE with a J1772 plug
j plug level 2
DC fast charge CHADEMO
CCS Combo station
NEMA 14-50 outlets
Tesla charging stations

Confusing to this analog[emoji330], carb rider but appreciate the informational responses.   

[benswing]

As a non EV owner (yet), I get twisted with all the acronyms/terminology.  I wish there was a simple picture with descriptions of these and how it relates to Zero / eBike:
 
EVSE with a J1772 plug
j plug level 2
DC fast charge CHADEMO
CCS Combo station
NEMA 14-50 outlets
Tesla charging stations

Great questions!  These are definitely next-level questions that most electric bikers don't need to know about. If you use a Zero for it's designed application (commuting) then you never need to know about any of that stuff, charging on a 110V outlet will do the trick for this. 

HOWEVER, if you want to go farther and push the boundaries (as several of us have been doing thanks to Hollywood Electrics), then here's some info.  (We should probably have a FAQ page about fast charging, etc. but that's for a later time.)

1)  Terminology:
EVSE with a J1772 plug (6.6kW) - EVSE is an Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment and the J1772 Plug is the standard plug. 

j plug level 2 (6.6kW) - A J-plug is simply a J1772 plug.  Level 2 refers to electrical service capable of 220V at 30+ Amps. 

CHADEMO DC Fast Charge (50kW) - DC fast charge refers to Direct Current and CHAdeMO is one of the protocols that allows you to fast charge (up to 80% in 30 minutes).  (Nissan)

CCS Combo station (50kW) - This is the other protocol for DC Fast Charging (BMW, Chevy, VW, etc.)  This protocol works with J1772 plugs so you do not need 2 female sockets in the vehicle.  Just 1 socket with 2 extra contacts.

NEMA 14-50 outlets (10kW)- These are 220V, 50Amp outlets available at many RV Parks in the US.

Tesla charging stations (135kW) - Tesla has proprietary charging stations that nobody else can use (so far).  They charge faster than CCS or CHAdeMO stations.


Here is a video showing how a Zero can be set up for road trips with 2 Elcon 2500W chargers on a Zero SR.


This video shows exactly what I do upon pulling into an RV Park campground to charge.  Starting at 2:30 you can see the whole interaction starting from when I pull into the parking lot to when I plug in.

[modeselector]

1)  Terminology:
EVSE with a J1772 plug (6.6kW) - EVSE is an Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment and the J1772 Plug is the standard plug. 

j plug level 2 (6.6kW) - A J-plug is simply a J1772 plug.  Level 2 refers to electrical service capable of 220V at 30+ Amps. 

CHADEMO DC Fast Charge (50kW) - DC fast charge refers to Direct Current and CHAdeMO is one of the protocols that allows you to fast charge (up to 80% in 30 minutes).  (Nissan)

CCS Combo station (50kW) - This is the other protocol for DC Fast Charging (BMW, Chevy, VW, etc.)  This protocol works with J1772 plugs so you do not need 2 female sockets in the vehicle.  Just 1 socket with 2 extra contacts.

NEMA 14-50 outlets (10kW)- These are 220V, 50Amp outlets available at many RV Parks in the US.

Tesla charging stations (135kW) - Tesla has proprietary charging stations that nobody else can use (so far).  They charge faster than CCS or CHAdeMO stations.

This is very helpful!

[Electric Terry]

Hi modeselector,

First off, welcome to the forum. 

You will get a hang of all this, but it takes time to fully understand.

Let me make it real easy for you.  Tell me where you need to commute to and from (approximate is fine) and I'll give you my best recommendation on what to do.  Riding an electric motorcycle far distances and charging is perhaps the only thing in the world I do better than breathing oxygen, so I'd be glad to offer some advice.

[StraydogEOMFD]

Also new to the e-bike world myself and interested in following this topic.  I'm considering an FXS with FX wheels, or FX with S wheels so I can ride dirt (single and double track trails in NJ) and street (commuting and twisty road fun), and do some SM track days at OVRP in NY.  Some trails are within range of where I live, some others I think I'll have to truck the bike there to be safe but I already do that with my YZ450 (which sucks as a trail bike by the way) so not a big deal.

Charging is a big concern for me as well; looking at the Zero site it shows the fastest charge time at 1.7hrs to 100%/1.2hrs to 95% with "max accessory" chargers (listing that as 4 of the Quiqs).  I assume that's from an almost fully drained battery?  Can you plug 4 of those Quiqs into one outlet, the onboard into another?  Are the Elcons "better"?  I'm sure there's some subjectivity to it all as there is with everything motorcycle is why I say that.  What would be a reasonable expectation for track use?  Would I be okay with a big, noisy, inexpensive generator and 1 Elcon @ 240V or better off with multiple Quiqs?  I'm honestly clueless as to how much a 20ish minute session would drain a battery, but I'd guess it would be significant since it's hard use?  Is the Elcon compatible with the offboard charging adapter from Zero?

My apologies if these questions are answered somewhere and I missed it, I tried multiple search queries and couldn't seem to find the specific answers I was looking for.  I have gone through the DigiNow SuperCharger thread a few times but didn't quite feel like it provided me the answers to my questions. 

P.S.-benswing-loved your videos on YouTube and I'm also in NJ.

[modeselector]

Hi modeselector,

First off, welcome to the forum. 

You will get a hang of all this, but it takes time to fully understand.

Let me make it real easy for you.  Tell me where you need to commute to and from (approximate is fine) and I'll give you my best recommendation on what to do.  Riding an electric motorcycle far distances and charging is perhaps the only thing in the world I do better than breathing oxygen, so I'd be glad to offer some advice.

Thank you for the welcome Electric Terry.

I'm within commuting range on any '13 or newer DS's.

What I'd like to determine is how feasible a DS would be for recreational travel purposes as a Dual Sport. 

Nothing hardcore, just 25-40 MPH dirt / gravel roads with various grades of incline/decline but rarely more than 15%. 

Pretty confident every 30-50 miles, a standard plug can be found in a small town, village or campground (not always with hookup but restroom or vending machine).

I'm real curious what range and charging set-up can be had with the above mentioned facilities, speeds and surfaces.

[NEW2elec]

Hi Stray it looks like Mode is in real good hands with Terry and Ben the long range experts so I'll see if I can help with your FX questions a little.  First off they are a bit different and though not impossible to do both trails and moto track, which is what I'm guessing you want to do.  You'll need to pick which one you want to do most as the street forks on the FXS aren't meant for off road trails and at least in the near future the FX does not come with the new IPM motor which has a higher temp limit (won't over heat as fast) so it can't take that full speed short tack for as long.  Here are two videos explaining some of the FX abilities and limits.





From the dirt review and a few other trail videos the FX has pretty good range but the easiest but rather expensive option is two backup batteries swapped out in about 2mins and back to full charge and go.  The $6000 takes you to a SR price range but if that is what you enjoy in life it could be worth it. As for the Delta Qs and generator charging I doubt you'd have enough amps for a max setup maybe at a moto track but not in the woods.

[StraydogEOMFD]

Thanks for the informative reply!  I really want to go Zero, I just am stuck on the fence because of the concerns you raise about differences in suspension and motors.  It's either a Zero FX/S (some homogenization thereof) or a KTM 500 EXC that's going to be by next two wheeled purchase with the intended use of dual sport trail riding with knobbies, supermoto twisty destruction and track day riding.  I feel like we're on the edge of the future looking into it, but it's just not quite here for me yet (stolen from a conversation with a guy who did a write up after a week long test of an SR).  I still want to believe it is though so I'm conflicted.

As far as the woods, I'm not worried about range there, I expect it to be about the same as the 1.4 g tank on my 450 which is enough to get to the house, out, and back.

Sorry to threadjack OP, haven't seen any other posts with related info yet.

[LeftieBiker]

   Those wanting to charge in RV parks who don't have a Charge Tank should carry an adapter to connect the 30 amp 120 volt RV "TT-30" outlets to the regular household 120 volt cord that Zero uses. These adapters can be found inexpensively on Ebay. Just get a real, factory-made adapter, not a homemade one.

[Electric Terry]

At those speeds (25-40) you should get rather good range.  Although you said you can make your commute on anything 2013 and up, I would recommend getting a 2015 or 2016 because of the ABS, suspension and the increased battery density.

You didn't say what area you were in or what trails you wished to ride.  I was going to look at the charging infrastructure around there to give a recommendation on what to get to make it as easy as possible.

[modeselector]

At those speeds (25-40) you should get rather good range.  Although you said you can make your commute on anything 2013 and up, I would recommend getting a 2015 or 2016 because of the ABS, suspension and the increased battery density.

You didn't say what area you were in or what trails you wished to ride.  I was going to look at the charging infrastructure around there to give a recommendation on what to get to make it as easy as possible.

I will send you a PM Terry.