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[denso]

Hello guys,

The BMS on my 2012 Zero X is dead. My dealer told me that Zero (or more precisely the European Zero Distribution) would possibly charge 600Euro (800$) for a new one.

For some reason it seems my bike has not been sent to Zero for the recall because it looks like my BMS is not covered in silicone http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchResults?searchType=ID&targetCategory=R&searchCriteria.nhtsa_ids=12V310000
I bought the bike in May 2013 as a demo bike with 5 miles on it. So I´m pretty angry that they try to refuse to repair it under warranty. 

My dealer and I have tested my bike with another 2012 battery and it ran fine.
After that we put my battery in a Zero MX with a stripped down harness (no spedometer, converter, etc.) and it worked fine.
So I`m pretty sure there is no other problem beside the BMS.

In case they dont come up with a satisfying solution, I thought about stripping down the electrics of the bike and ride without BMS from now on.

So here are my questions:

- Do EIG Cells tend to drift?
- If they drift how much would this affect the bikes range or power output?
- Any danger of destroying cells by running without BMS?
- To the guys who have the same Battery: What voltage do you have when its fully charged?


Forgot to mention: My bike has 2300 miles on it.

[Doctorbass]

Hello Denso,

I can help  for all these questions my friend! =)


Q- Do EIG Cells tend to drift?
A: no these cells are ultra high quality lithium cells and the don't really drift. Mine was kept for  several month during winter storage at 50% state of charge at 15 celsius  and they voltage did not droped by more than 5mV !

Q- If they drift how much would this affect the bikes range or power output?
A: these cells operate from 4.2V to 3.0V if they are with in this range they will work. At about 3.4v per cell  or less the controller will start reducing the power to the motor

Q- Any danger of destroying cells by running without BMS?
A: YESS !!!! this pack worth 3000$ and I would not recommend destroying cells by cells over the time by the non use of BMS. the BMs protect against over  charge and discharge

Q- To the guys who have the same Battery: What voltage do you have when its fully charged?
A: when these are full I read between 74.7 and 75V wich is about 4.15 V per cells. and 4.35 is the best max voltage to extend their life without compromising the stored energy too much.



btw I know someone that is selling some EIG cells ( contact Kyle   aka nuts&volts) he have about 40 of them.

For the BMS I have one spare that I could sell you. I can also reprogram it according to your mike model. PM me

Doc

[protomech]

The BMS should be covered under the 2 year power pack warranty if the vehicle was bought new in May 2013.

ZERO MOTORCYCLES WARRANTIES
Zero Motorcycles Inc. expressly warrants all 2012 Zero manufactured MX and X models from defects in material and workmanship to the original owner under normal operating conditions and according to proper use for 1 year (unlimited miles) from the “In Service Date” which is the date your Zero Motorcycle dealer performed a pre-delivery inspection on the Zero, (P.D.I). The power pack warranty is 2 years (unlimited miles). These warranties are transferrable subject to a $50 processing fee and a new registration card to subsequent owners.

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/warranty/

[denso]

The BMS should be covered under the 2 year power pack warranty if the vehicle was bought new in May 2013.

Thats what I thought too... but my dealer said its not under the warranty because it was a demo bike and it was produced in 2012 so the warranty ran out... and because I bought it at a discounted price... (6700 Euro ~ 8675$ -  ... I'm sure most people got a better deal on their bike btw.)

I read from a lot of posts here, that Zero is fair with warranty with their US customers. To me it seems like the European Distributor just wants to sell bikes and then forgett about them.


Thanks Doc for answering my questions.

But there is one point that needs some explaination

Q- Any danger of destroying cells by running without BMS?
A: YESS !!!! this pack worth 3000$ and I would not recommend destroying cells by cells over the time by the non use of BMS. the BMs protect against over  charge and discharge

The Alltrax shuts down the power at a certain voltage (maybe 62V). The Delta Q is set to charge to 75V. And when these cells don't really drift much, why is there the risk of destroying the cells?

No need for Eig cells right now, thanks! But I might get back to you on the BMS if Zero doesn't come up with a fair solution.

[Richard230]

Zero will be at Intermot.  If you can get to the show, maybe you can "buttonhole" ("blind side"     )them there about your warranty issue.

[mikeisted]

Hi Denso

Just wondering what the symptoms are.  My bike was showing fully charged when I set off this morning, then went to zero bars 3 miles into the ride.  I managed to limp home at 15 mph, but not sure if it's a BMS issue or the battery itself, or something else...

Cheers

Mike

[firepower]

Does not matter if you bought a demo or what price from dealer it still has full Zero warranty, unless you signed and agree it had no or less warranty in writing.

Contact Zero directly and push the warranty Claim.

This is terrible service from dealer, If they treat you bad you just bad mouth there business and zero, less repeat customer and they end up closing like the U.K.
For such a low volume sales they need to make sure their customers are happy.

try contacting aaronzeromoto

@aaronzeromoto
Zero Motorcycles
Director of Customer Experience

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?action=profile;u=5247

[Cortezdtv]

I might have an extra bms laying around I could ship you after I test to make sure it works

It's a 2012 X.   Or MX?



Either way should've covered under warrentee
If you don't get the part soon I can send you one of mine; I'm process of getting a couple for 2 bikes I have

[denso]

Hello Cortez,
My bike is a 2012 X. I have bought another battery now (used at a good price). So I can ride again.
The old battery is still in my cellar waiting for repair.
I will send you a pm regarding your extra bms.

Just wondering what the symptoms are.  My bike was showing fully charged when I set off this morning, then went to zero bars 3 miles into the ride.  I managed to limp home at 15 mph, but not sure if it's a BMS issue or the battery itself, or something else.

Hello Mike,
I have also read your topic...
I was (once or twice) experiencing similar symptoms. But not so dramatic as it was on your bike.
One example: I had 4 bars (of 10) on the "fuel gauge" after approx. 30 Kilometers of riding and the bike shut down the power immediately and the fuel gauge was blinking like it's empty. I was able to drive a few hundred meters with reduced power but then decided to push the bike home. After charging it was OK again. But that was a few months before my BMS failure.

My BMS problem was different...
After a short ride I took the battery (aprox. 80% full) out off my bike because I was about to change the chain and clean the bike. The next day I put the battery back in the frame and I wanted to ride again with my new chain, but the bike did not drive.
Symptoms: The fan, the lights and the speedometer went "on" when I turned the key, just like usual, but when I turned the throtttle, my bike did not move at all. A red "!" was showing on the speedometer.

Thanks for your help to everyone who has replied here. I will let you know if there are any news regarding my old battery/BMS.

[mikeisted]

Hi Denso,

It seems to me from the forum that the Zero 2012 models were clearly never designed for (northern) European weather.  I also think I'm seeing a repeating pattern of BMS boards not being waterproofed, even though a recall was issued.

I'm being told by Zero Europe that they take customer care and safety seriously.  However the actions on the ground don't reflect this sentiment in my opinion.  Unfortunately I'm not seeing much here to counter that view.  My bike is unusable unless I find several thousand pounds.   I don't think there has even been an acknowledgement that I was left stranded in the middle of nowhere, at night and in the rain, when the power suddenly cut-out.

There have been several recalls for Zeros here in the UK.  I have now made a request to the government agency monitoring these to find out exactly how many were successfully fixed.  Maybe the vast majority were, but perhaps many were not, with the resulting problems we are experiencing.

On another note - are any of those EIG cells viable?