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[Richard230]

I hope they do indeed both make it.  I suspect there is plenty of room for several good options.

Now if Mission would just start shipping................


This is going a bit off topic, but does anyone have a feel for the relative production volume between Bramo and Zero.  I had the impression Zero was way ahead but then that is simply an impression and not based on any facts.  If Zero does have more product in the field, I would expect them to have more activity on the problem front.

If I had to take a guess, based upon previous recall numbers (such as the motor magnet recall), I would say that Zero is probably manufacturing at least twice as many "units" as Brammo this year.

[frodus]

If I had to take a guess, based upon previous recall numbers (such as the motor magnet recall), I would say that Zero is probably manufacturing at least twice as many "units" as Brammo this year.

Rather than continuing to Speculate/Jump to conclusions/Assume, lets look at information gathered from the previous recall notices at the NHTSA (reference my other thread here: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3795.0)

Lets compare these instead:
Brammo recall for Tail assembly bracket weld (605 bikes) http://edwardsmotorcyclelaw.com/brammo-recall-13v262000/
and
Zero Motor Controller glitch (667 bikes) http://edwardsmotorcyclelaw.com/zero-recall-13V635000/

From that info:
The Brammo tail recall was for bikes built between Nov 2012 and June 2013.... ~600 bikes during ~8months.

Now here's where it gets interesting:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM447792/RCDNN-13V635-9152P.pdf
In that document 667 Zero models were affected. The ones affected were all sevcon-based motorcycles of various date ranges from as early as 10/21/2011 up until 11/08/2013. IIRC, Zero switched to the Sevcon in 2012 (and the recall dates agree) and have used them ever since.

Also from that document:
"On 12/5/2013, Zero Motorcycles completed its internal investigation of this concern and concluded that 2012 and 2013 model motorcycles built with a Sevcon controller prior to 11/08/2013 have firmware that could respond to infrequent signal faults by discontinuing controller power to the motor, which could lead to a quits-while-running situation. Zero Motorcycles executive management considered this information and determined that a defect related to motor vehicle safety existed."

So that means all of the Zero bikes previous to 11/08/2013 that used the Sevcon controller totalled 667 bikes..... That includes the same months as the Brammo recall for the tail..... so in the first 6 months of 2013 Brammo produced ~600 bikes. Zero produced 667 bikes during all of 2012 and 2013.

I think Zero is far from producing "twice as many units as Brammo".

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

For a post that starts off trying to call out assumptions, you sure are making some on your own. Those documents do not imply what you say they do.

[protomech]

Rather than continuing to Speculate/Jump to conclusions/Assume, lets look at information gathered from the previous recall notices at the NHTSA (reference my other thread here: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3795.0)

I don't know how much stock I would put in the 600 unit number there. The last VIN I saw that was assembled in April 2013 was not yet in the triple digits. "600 units potentially affected" doesn't mean 600 bikes have been assembled, or that 600 bikes have been sold.

Looking at your map is an interesting counterpoint. There are 18 Empulse R and E1 bikes registered on the owner map, produced since December 2012. There are 14 Zero SR bikes registered on the owner map, produced since January 2014. Both Brammo and Zero make other models too.

[frodus]

The nhtsa quotes the number of bikes....not the range of Vin numbers. Total number of bikes affected. I'm directly quoting their documents for both bikes.

I'm not saying that Brammo produces more....but I'm saying that they produce far more than some people seem to think.

And yeah production does not equal sales numbers....but you all know that not everyone that owns a bike is going to post online or join a map. Nthsa numbers are as close as we'll likely get.

The nthsa data does include all bikes for zero for 2012 and 2013 on one recall....As well as a partial year production number for Brammo. Those are the numbers and they're far more accurate than assumptions made in some of the threads on this forum.

I'm trusting the nhtsa.

I'm done. Continue discussing the zero suspension issues. 

[Richard230]

Not to add much to the production numbers discussion, although I would be very interested in the numbers if they ever come out officially, but where I get confused is the production of the Brammo Enertia.  I sometimes forget that they still make and sell the Enertia because I haven't seen one on the road for at least the past 2 years.  I keep thinking of just the Empulse when I think of Brammo sales and I now realize that is not the entire Brammo production picture, especially if you look at European sales where the Enertia is likely a bigger seller than the Empulse at this time.