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[NoMoreGas]

Hello everyone!

I live in Pennsylvania and have been researching electric motorcycles for a few months now. There's a lot of great information and knowledgable folks here so I hope to learn more.

I've never owned a real motorcycle before but I've had many ATVs and dirt bikes over the years. My main vehicle at the moment is my truck which has a V8 so needless to say, gas isn't cheap. Here in eastern PA, we get snow about 5 months out of the year and a perfect balance of seasons for the rest. I'm looking to get an electric motorcycles for the remaining 7 warm months of the year plus anytime in the cold months when the temp is above freezing. I live on top of a small mountain with up to 25 - 35% grade hills on the way up.

I've narrowed my probable choices to either a Zero DS 11.4 or a Zero SR 11.4, without the power tank option because I'd rather save on weight + have storage space. I'd say that 90% of the time I travel, it's 60 miles or less round trip so extra distance doesn't concern me as much as HP/torque. The 11.4s are already better than the 8.5s and that's good enough for me.

Some observations, suggestions, and questions for Zero....

-Will we see any torque increase or suspension changes on the DS for the 2015 models? For a partially off-road bike, this could only improve the performance in my opinion.

-I feel that if Zero would price their motorcycles about $3,000 LESS on ALL models, they would see quite an increase in their sales.

-Would it be possible to harness the power of the rotating tires to maintain a constant electrical current similar to a hand-crank radio?? Thus increasing energy output/distance?

-What R&D is Zero conducting to reduce weight across the board on all the motorcycles?

-I think the cheapest "quick charge" upgrade that Zero offers, which reduces charge time by about half, should be STANDARD. Keep the power tank and 90 minute charge as upgrade options. Why not add different kinds of tires as an upgrade option?

-What are the biggest improvements we can most likely expect to see on the 2015 Zero motorcycles?

[Richard230]

All Zero motorcycles use electrical regeneration as the vehicle slows or brakes to produce power that is fed back into the battery pack.

Good luck finding out the answers to your questions about the 2015 models.  Zero is very tight lipped about their future plans and I can't recall a single leak coming out of the factory in the past before the new models have been officially launched.  You can expect this to occur around September or October, if history is any guide.

The only improvement that I am pretty sure will be offered on the 2015 bikes is ABS, which I believe will be required for Zero to market their bikes in the EU next year.  Other than that I can't do anything but make wishful thinking comments as you have done, although it seems reasonable to me that Level 2 charging may finally make an appearance.

[NoMoreGas]

All Zero motorcycles use electrical regeneration as the vehicle slows or brakes to produce power that is fed back into the battery pack.

Good luck finding out the answers to your questions about the 2015 models.  Zero is very tight lipped about their future plans and I can't recall a single leak coming out of the factory in the past before the new models have been officially launched.  You can expect this to occur around September or October, if history is any guide.

The only improvement that I am pretty sure will be offered on the 2015 bikes is ABS, which I believe will be required for Zero to market their bikes in the EU next year.  Other than that I can't do anything but make wishful thinking comments as you have done, although it seems reasonable to me that Level 2 charging may finally make an appearance.

Thank you for the information Richard. ABS would surely be a great feature to hold out a year in my opinion. I'm sure we will see a minor increase in total distance as every new model year has done. The new digital display panel on these 2014 models really makes them look better than the older basic stuff. I wonder if they will enhance the display to provide any more detailed information?

Does Zero take on outside sales reps? I feel like I could easily sell these to people in my area but I don't own a dealership and know very little about the technical aspects. These motorcycles practically sell themselves in my opinion.

[protomech]

Hello NoMoreGas.

First up, thank you for your service. Driving a Zero will be a slightly different experience than an M1.

We haven't made a thread yet for speculation on 2015 models. I think we'll see a new, higher-voltage battery architecture system. Just speculation.

Agree about a price drop causing sales to pick up .. but I think Zero also needs to sell a higher volume of bikes to really reduce the price that substantially. I guess Zero is making some profit on the bikes, particularly the 2014s, but probably not $3000.

The motor can act in reverse as a generator, to recover energy into the battery pack when going downhill or when braking (instead of or in addition to heating up the friction brakes). This will slightly extend range, particularly in low-speed stop-and-go riding. However - I think this is what you're asking - you couldn't simply install a front-wheel generator to recover energy without making the rear-wheel motor work even harder. There's no "free energy lunch" in the general sense.

Zero has actually been working to beef up the bikes over the last few years, increasing the size/weight of the forks, brakes, and frame. This is somewhat counteracted by using very dense batteries (high energy to weight ratio). It's also worth noting that the Zero bikes are pretty light compared to typical gas motorcycles, though the difference has been reduced in the last couple of years. Consider:

2014 Honda CRF250L - 320 lbs 24 hp
2014 Zero FX ZF2.8 - 238 lbs 27 hp
2014 Zero FX ZF5.7 - 280 lbs 44 hp

(Honda makes track and competition bikes that are quite a bit lighter, but the CRF250L is their lightest street-legal bike like the FX)

2014 Honda CBR250R - 357 lbs 24 hp
2014 Honda CBR500F - 420 lbs 47 hp
2014 Zero S ZF8.5 - 367 lbs 54 hp
2014 Zero S ZF11.4 - 399 lbs 54 hp

2014 Honda CBR650F - 461 lbs 86 hp
2014 Zero SR ZF11.4 - 407 lbs 67 hp

Typically Zero demonstrates their next year's powertrain at Laguna Seca Refuel in May. I don't know if there is a 2014 event scheduled.
http://www.refuelraces.com

I agree that Zero should make a 3kW onboard charger standard, with a 6 kW and possibly 12 kW upgrade option. I think they will offer a higher-power charger at the same time they move to a higher-voltage powertrain, hopefully for 2015.

[NoMoreGas]

Thank you for the information protomech.

You're right about weight. I lean towards the SR over the Brammo Empulse partially because the Empulse is about 60 lbs more. From what I've read, 350 - 400lbs is somewhat ideal for stability + performance. I'm sure they will find ways to shed weight but most of that will come with smaller batteries in the future.

[bigd]

@proto -

Agree about a price drop causing sales to pick up .. but I think Zero also needs to sell a higher volume of bikes to really reduce the price that substantially. I guess Zero is making some profit on the bikes, particularly the 2014s, but probably not $3000.

Can Zero do anything with carbon credits to help lower the price of the bikes? This is how Tesla makes a profit but not sure if zero is large enough or the details of this program.

[NoiseBoy]

I believe Tesla sell their credits back to the major car manufacturers which allows them to build more ICE cars under government rules.  I don't think these rules apply to motorcycles yet but the American members will be able to confirm.