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[protomech]

as an aside, i had to smile a couple of days ago when this couple were just strolling diagonally across a parking lot blocking my path and i finally just had to call out "excuse me" so they knew i was there.  tooooo quiet.  i felt like a toot on the horn would have been too disruptive.

I've done something similar, riding on some (rather) backcountry roads with a jogger running in the exact middle of the road. Rolled along behind him at a jogging pace for a little bit, then eventually called out and moved past : )

[BenBrown]

I wondered about charging as well.  I just bought a 2011 xu dealer's demo cycle and plugged it in that night...  It started with the Ammeter indicator LED's showing about 4 'bars'. Once the the system read charged and showing a green light I unplugged it.  Its been two days so I went to plug it in again.  It read 3 or 4 bars with the 80% amber light showing.

I wonder should it have dropped back to where it started in two days, with no riding involved?                                                                                                                       

[Lipo423]

I would disagree in leaving the battery pack charging for a very long period of time, or 100% charged...and I would agree that Zero ultimately wants to avoid deep discharge user problems, not total battery capacity loss (long run and after warranty...).
The experience shows that leaving a pack at 30% capacity  for a long period of time would not damage it, but let's face it batteries like being charged/de-charged, so, I would not recommend keeping the pack unused for more tan 3-4 weeks, that would not be very healthy...

[spelunker]

The way I understand it is, just because the charger is plugged in doesn't necessarily mean it's charging. My interpretation of the manual is that the charger stops charging when the batteries are charged. You leave it plugged in so that every 72 hours it comes online and checks the balance of the cells. At least that's my take on what the 2013 S manual says.

[trikester]

I agree with spelunker on that. It is how I understand the charger operation also.

Trikester

[SunPropulsion]

I keep my 2012 DS plugged in all the time so that I have a full battery. I think its important to know what battery chemistry you have and research it - batteryunivercity.com or Wiki it.  My DS has uses the Lithium NMC chemistry or the Nickle, manganese, cobalt.  Its has excellent energy density and thermo regulation, meaning it doesn't get as hot as other lithium chemistry's during charge and discharge with is good because excessive heat will destroy most things.
I have a watt hr meter on my charger so I just look at it to see if the charger has finished bulk charging or is in float mode, drawing about 5 watts.  Bulk charge mode it draws about 950 watts

[Lipo423]

The charger does not stop completely charging when you reach set machimum charge/battery capacity, it will carry on charging the batteries at a "residual current level"
Is this bad? No, but it is not healthy to leave the bike that way long run...at full capacity as the battery chemistry would be damaged.
Keep charging/discharging the battery (minimum once a moth) if you want to keep them alive long run...but do not worry too much on this, the batteries will age anyway (6-8 years), and consequently loose overall maximum capacity overtime whatever you do.

The bike manual is written for avoiding "non-battery experts" or general users to getting in trouble over a long period of time (warranty?), and to make your life easier, but if you speak to a battery expert he/she would not suggesst you to leave the battery pack at full charge long run, or not to cycle it

[kcoplan]

Lipo -- interesting thoughts.  I am wondering  . . . what if you wanted to store the bike for a really long time -- like two years?  (If all my life dreams work out, I might take a long sabbatical about three years from now).  Is there anything you could do to keep the batteries from dying?  Other than loan the bike to someone who will ride it regularly, of course.  Could you leave it switched on, then put the charging cord on a timer, so the lights would drain the batteries a little each day, then the charger would kick in and bring the batteries back up each day, too?  (I am not even sure whether the bikes will charge when switched on).  Of course, your light could burn out sometime and wreck that plan.

Any thoughts?  Other than sell the bike for pennies on the dollar and buy the latest model when I get back (expensive)?

--Karl

[protomech]

Ideally you would store the battery at ~50% charge in cool temperatures. I believe the onboard charger will charge the battery up to 4.2 volts per cell every 72 hours; a maintenance mode where it instead charges it up to (say) 3.6 volts per cell would be ideal. There is a side port that you could access to plug in a secondary "maintenance" charger and perhaps leave the onboard charger unplugged.

Realistically, the easiest thing to do would be to sell the bike and purchase a new or one year old bike when you return. 2012s will be somewhat ancient at that point; Zero may slow their rapid progress in future years but I think you will find that you lose less "value" by selling now and buying when you return than by retaining the existing bike even in ideal conditions.

[Lipo423]

kcoplan,
I would agree with protomech (and with you! -the loan option-). You should sell the bike. 3 years is too much (this includes the low charge storaging option, which would delay the kemical issues, but they would show up anyway)
3 years is a long time...and remember the battery pack will age...

I have seen a lot of interesting discussions in a few websites -including  here- in trying to get the best formula to take proper care of the lithium battery packs -which I understand- unfortunately not a lot of talk about the unavoidable "aging" capacity deterioration issue, which in large battery packs is a kind of nighmare.

[kcoplan]

Yeah, sell the bike, I guess.  Probably worth about $500 bucks by then, at current depreciation rates.    And a new 2018 Zero might be going for what, $20G?

I am beginning it like the loan option, if this really works out.  My daughter rides a Honda Rebel; she'd love to take off with Dad's Zero, actually.

--Karl

[protomech]

If the batteries are still holding up, I would guess a 2012 Zero in 2017 would be worth a couple thousand bucks. It's hard to find ANY motorcycle in running condition around here for less than a thousand bucks .. and provided that the electrics prove to be reliable, then they should be much easier to own than a ~15 year old gas bike with uncertain maintenance risks hanging overhead.

But that may be optimistic. We'll see how well the bikes hold up over time.

[trikester]

I've had my 2010 DS for sale at $2,000 and so far no takers. I set the price there because that's what Harlan sold one for, and he said it took six months to sell it.

Trikester

[Richard230]

I think the market for electric motorcycles is pretty small in the U.S. - unless you are a well-off new adopter.  It is likely much better in Europe where two-wheel in-town commuting is much more popular. I don't see electric motorcycle sales to individuals in the U.S. really taking off until average gas prices go above $5 a gallon and who knows when that might be now that in America "fracking"  is all the rage.

[protomech]

Fracking will continue to reduce electricity prices, but it'll only slightly reduce gas prices where the refineries use natural gas.