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Total Members Voted: 2

Voting closed: April 10, 2013, 09:57:55 AM

[oobflyer]

I love my 2012 ZF9, but I would love it even more if I could fast-charge it at a CHAdeMO charging station. Like other 2012 Zero owners I can't just buy a new Zero after investing so much in my current bike. But if I had the choice of retrofitting my 2012 to be able to take advantage of the new charging technology I could justify another couple thousand dollars  ;-)

What do you think?

[dubster]

I love my 2012 ZF9, but I would love it even more if I could fast-charge it at a CHAdeMO charging station. Like other 2012 Zero owners I can't just buy a new Zero after investing so much in my current bike. But if I had the choice of retrofitting my 2012 to be able to take advantage of the new charging technology I could justify another couple thousand dollars  ;-)

What do you think?

hello, a chademo system wouldn't fit the 2012 model without major adjustments.

the bms and main bike board is changed from 2012 to 2013 model.  The chademo connects with CAN to BMS so this will be a very expensive and time-consumming option

[WindRider]

I would consider paying for this if there were any CHAdeMO stations in my area that allowed me to actually go somewhere.

As the situation is now locally, CHAdeMO has no value being on the bike as it is not available to plug into out here in the outback of the US.

[oobflyer]

it is not available to plug into out here in the outback of the US.

Nissan is in the process of installing CHAdeMO chargers at all of their dealerships - is there a Nissan dealership where you live?

a chademo system wouldn't fit the 2012 model without major adjustments.

Do you think it is impossible - or would just be too expensive?

[Richard230]

I am happy with charging at 120V, all I want is the larger 2013 on-board charger.  CHAdeMO may be great for people wanting to take long trips, but the way I use my bike, charging overnight works for me.

[benswing]

On the east coast, we don't have any.  The closest ones to me (near NYC) are in Montreal and Raleigh, NC (about 450 miles away). 

If we had some installed around here I would seriously consider this.  Especially since my iMIEV is CHAdeMO compatible already.

[NoiseBoy]

Im pretty sure Chademo cannot charge as low as 64V.  You would need a totally new battery pack to use it.

[WindRider]

it is not available to plug into out here in the outback of the US.

Nissan is in the process of installing CHAdeMO chargers at all of their dealerships - is there a Nissan dealership where you live?

 Yes, there is a Nissan dealership 30 miles from me... but I can currently ride there and back with no problems and no need to charge.   

There are some great 150 - 300 mile loop rides in my area and there are no CHAdeMO stations anywhere around those loops.

[protomech]

It appears CHAdeMO goes as low as 50V. At least some DC quick chargers can do that.
http://www.delta-europe.com/press/press_detail.asp?sid=1&id=341

I don't know that it's very practical on the 2012 bikes. 7 kW AC charging is very close to a 1C charge rate on our bikes, and you can get that from any ol' 32A J1772 plug.

To really make quick DC charging effective we need high voltage (300+ V) battery packs with cells that can tolerate high C-rate charging.

Toshiba's SCiB titanate cells might be nice, except for weight. I recall Honda uses these in their EV neo scooter btw.
http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/tag_files/SCiB_Brochure_5383.pdf

Say 175 cells @ 2.3V 20Ah = 402V nominal 20Ah, 8 kWh capacity. Charge at 100A from CHAdeMO = 12 minute charge.

175 cells though weigh 89 kg / 196 pounds. About twice as heavy as our 2012 ZF9 battery cells or the 2013 10 kWh ZF11.4 cells. Tradeoffs.

Btw Terry has had good luck otherwise, but I've heard numerous reports of Nissan dealers refusing to allow non-Leafs to charge at the J1772 plugs. I doubt CHAdeMO will be any more forthcoming.

[dubster]

I am happy with charging at 120V, all I want is the larger 2013 on-board charger.  CHAdeMO may be great for people wanting to take long trips, but the way I use my bike, charging overnight works for me.

it can be possible to change the charger but pay attention.

the 2013 charger is from meanwell with no 'intellgence' and the a extra control unit for charging.  don't remember (only drove once on the 2013 S) but think the plug is different also

the 2012 charger is a Delta Q with build in charging controller

so just changing the charger won't work.  the voltage is also different

[NoiseBoy]

HIgher voltages are definitely the future of EV's.  When you are getting up to 1000A the cabling gets impractical so the only option to increase voltage, which is what Zero have done for 2013.  The problem is you run into difficulties at high DC voltages.  It's very difficult and expensive to buy fuses and contactors rated over 350VDC so you have to start dividing the pack into lower voltage modules which adds weight and complexity.  Of course companies will eventually develop their own high voltage components but it will be years in the making.

There are lots of advantages, like being able to charge in the 10's of KW's with a relatively thin cable at low C rates.  Im not sure what the losses would be like in a pack with a large number of cells in series, reliability would obvious be compromised, but it has to be the way forward.

[oobflyer]

Sounds like it won't be happening....

Although I really like my 2012 S ZF9 I wish I'd waited another year. Even if you have three Delta Q chargers, where would you plug them in? It's hard enough to find charging stations with 120V outlets, let alone several of them.

Oh well, live and learn. I'll save my pennies and trade up one day. Imagine what will be available in a few more years at this pace of tecnological progress.

[Richard230]

Sounds like it won't be happening....

Although I really like my 2012 S ZF9 I wish I'd waited another year. Even if you have three Delta Q chargers, where would you plug them in? It's hard enough to find charging stations with 120V outlets, let alone several of them.

Oh well, live and learn. I'll save my pennies and trade up one day. Imagine what will be available in a few more years at this pace of tecnological progress.

I am not sure that we are going to see this sort of tech and performance advancement in electric motorcycles from year to year ever again. - unless there is a big advancement in batteries that are produced in volume and offered at an affordable price.  There are a lot of big battery tech ideas out there, but I am not hearing about anyone actually mass producing these new designs - except maybe to power secret mil-spec $$$ drones.   

[Biff]

Sounds like it won't be happening....

Although I really like my 2012 S ZF9 I wish I'd waited another year. Even if you have three Delta Q chargers, where would you plug them in? It's hard enough to find charging stations with 120V outlets, let alone several of them.

Oh well, live and learn. I'll save my pennies and trade up one day. Imagine what will be available in a few more years at this pace of tecnological progress.

Delta Q's work on 220 as well (no switch select or anything is required, just plug it in), If you make an adaptor / splitter cord you can hook up 3 delta Q's using a regular dryer plug, or if you have the J1772 adaptor plug you can use charge stations too, like how Terry did.

-ryan

[Doctorbass]

The way the deltaQ charger work is simple, no real  "intelligence", except  dor the protections.

It charge CC-CV, than once the MBB   and BMS detect one or more cells reach the max volt o fthe CC-CV, it disable the trigger wire signal ( circuit open) that make the charger to go in the low current mode ( balance current) just enough to equalize all cells and nor overcharge.

It can be done with any other meanwell power supply that have CV  and constant power regulation  like the RSP serie that limit  the  power input. You just need one that dont exceed that  max power your AC supply  can do. and you add a current limiting resistor  controlled by a relay that is activated by that trigger wire.

The power supply charge full power and once  one or more cell  bank reach the max voltage, the trigger enavble the relay that open so the max current is disabled but the balance current continu thru that resistor to finish the equalizing job.

You might have to disconnect the power suply  one the battery is full to not stress the cells with thrickle charge current.

you can get these 2000W  ( 2500 W measured) RSP-2000-48 mean power supply for about 430$ wich is teh same price as one delta Q of about 950W... and ... the meanwell aere 3 time smaller in volume! so they fit under the seat!

You can also connect them in serie to crank  up the voltage to match your battery voltage by adding a reverse current protection diode in parallel with each serie charger. It work with my 3 meanwell RSP-1000-48 !

These work on 100-240Vac so no worrie.

But again, the max power you can put depend on where you connect the "charger" on the battery... and what is the AC power you have access

Doc