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[Marshm]

With 2 batteries, I have read you can ride with 1 or have increased power by using 2 at the same time.  Does anyone know if both batteries could be on board yet ony use 1 battery?  Then when the first battery was used up, you could use the other battery.  This would give increased range for rides that might need it.  Running in a lower power usage 1 battery config should use less energy than running both at the same time I would think.  

I guess if the packs were identical they could be removed and swapped, but doing that out on the trail offroad would not be desired, and could be impossible.  Leaving 1 unplugged while riding, and then after it is empty, just unplug the empty battery and plug in the full one would be ok if the connectors were easy to get to.  

I wonder if they planned for this type of usage and made it easy to do.  Or difficult by having the battery plug itself in as you slid it into place.  

[Harlan]

It is unnecessary to unplug one battery to put the bike into a lower power mode.  You simply flip the switch from "sport" to "eco" mode and then you are in low power mode. 

All the 2013 bikes are also bluetooth enabled and you can download an app for either you iphone or android device that allows you to adjust performance parameters such as acceleration and regenerative braking. 

Also, by using both batteries at the same time you will be reducing the power draw and discharge level on any single battery and most likely lengthen their usable life.  You may even get more range by minimizing the Peukert Effect.

[trikester]

Two batteries in parallel will always be more efficient than one, even if you are also reducing power. The reason is less I/R loss because the total battery internal resistance is cut in half and some of the wiring will also be in parallel and thereby reducing wiring resistive losses.

I will probably ride my 2013 FX with only one battery on board sometimes. However, it is only to reduce weight on short dirt rides (I don't care how much the bike weighs when riding pavement). I know that my losses will be a little higher in that configuration but if my intended ride distance will allow it, then it would be good to not have the extra weight on board. Of course I may come to the conclusion that the bike handles so well, even with both on board, that I will end up always riding with both batteries. Some dirt ride time will determine that.

Trikester

BTW - Harlan has my 2010 DS for sale. If interested, inquire of him.

[Marshm]

I had to look up Peukert Effect.  I guess my thinking was more along the way ICE bikes work, the more powerful engine always burns more fuel no matter how easy you try to be on the throttle. I always burned less fuel on a 250 than a 400 on the same trails riding about the same.  I guess with electric, things work a little differently.  Being so used to ICE and not owning electric, yet, I tend to apply ICE principles to electric. 

It would be nice to be able to tune the bike how I want.  That is a neat feature. I was thinking about some of the 50 mile trail rides I sometimes do.  If I saw my available energy falling below half before I reached 25 miles, maybe I could switch to eco mode for the rest of the ride, or maybe just for a while. I would like to be able to do something at that point, instead of just throwing up my hands and say I'm doomed.  I think I would like the power that the 2013's can produce.  I have been concerned reading about Zero's that below 20 mph the acceleration was weak.  For offroad trails I mostly ride below 20mph, so I extremely don't like the sound of weak acceleration below 20 mph.  I wonder how much ability there is with the tuning software.  It still might not allow big acceleration at slow speeds.  I wasn't looking to reduce power all the time, the increased power of the 2013's have peaked my interest.  It was that range concern popping up in my head again.  From Trikester's trail ride data, maybe 50 miles of various trails is doable while staying in sport mode the whole time anyway. 

I might also use only 1 battery for weight as well.  Of course the particular ride would influence that decision.  That is a very significant amount of weight for offroad.  I agree it's not that big of a deal for street, so I would also use 2 for street.  I might just leave both in all the time due to shear lazyness of having to remove one.  Or not knowing the exact trail ride, thus having a safety factor on board. 

[firepower]

What is the name of the zero app for android and apple? still cant see in playstore.
Will there also be app for webOS and Blackberry?

[Doctorbass]

Also, by using both batteries at the same time you will be reducing the power draw and discharge level on any single battery and most likely lengthen their usable life.  You may even get more range by minimizing the Peukert Effect.

Harlan,

As far as i know, Peukert Effect is only related to Lead acid battery and is not significant for lithium battery with resonable C rate like the one used in the Zero.

Lead acid have a rate for C/20 for their full capacity but for lithium battery like LiPo, LiFe or LiMn, C/20 is giving the same capacity as for 1C, or even 2 or 3C... and sometime up to 20C and 95% capaicty like A123 can do due to the conteracting effect of the heat that lower the internal resistance and redece heat loss anat a benefit of higher electrical energy output.

Maybe you was talking abot Lead acid battery?... but the 2012 zero, i'm 100% sure it is NOT using such poor battery

Doc

[Doctorbass]

Btw, i am planning on doubling the real usable kWh of my zero DS 2011 battery during this winter. It will be a mix of 16s LiFePO4 A123 20Ah pouchs in parallel to the 14s LiMn. The LiFe 16s of 60Ah will use his own BMS.

Estimated real range will be like 130 km of 50% highway and 50% city.

I will remive the onboard Delta Q charger to get more room for the battery and will replace the charger by a 3000W 58V server power supply that can fit under the seat.

The added weight will be about 80 pounds  and will be at lower center of gravity.  I weight 150.. so that will  keep good performances

Doc

[Harlan]

As far as i know, Peukert Effect is only related to Lead acid battery and is not significant for lithium battery with resonable C rate like the one used in the Zero.

Lead acid have a rate for C/20 for their full capacity but for lithium battery like LiPo, LiFe or LiMn, C/20 is giving the same capacity as for 1C, or even 2 or 3C... and sometime up to 20C and 95% capaicty like A123 can do due to the conteracting effect of the heat that lower the internal resistance and redece heat loss anat a benefit of higher electrical energy output.

Maybe you was talking abot Lead acid battery?... but the 2012 zero, i'm 100% sure it is NOT using such poor battery

Doc

I believe the Peukert Effect will still apply to a small degree with a lithium battery, however I agree with your assesment Doc, that the Peukert Effect will not be noticeable on such a high capacity, high quality battery.  I was just listing off many reasons why it is best to run the bike off both batteries if they are both present on the bike.

[protomech]

Lithium batteries will still sag under heavy discharge - such as you will be doing on a 33 kW bike with 2.5-5 kW battery.

You can extract more energy out of the battery by halving the discharge, say 2C average instead of 4C average. Assuming you're not making significant use of the extra power the 2nd battery affords..