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Author Topic: DSR/X  (Read 2223 times)

Motoproponent

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Re: DSR/X
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2024, 10:44:09 PM »

All I'm saying is that the industry isn't moving in any direction for us. That is the pressure we can exert, electric motorcyclists with our less than 20KWH battery packs, aren't going to drive any trends for the general public.

Cars. Catering to the needs of cars is what people will be doing. Cars want 100kwh battery packs and 350kw plus charging speeds. 6kw to a vehicle with a 100kwh battery is soo, slow. It really amounts to premium parking and a reason why an electric vehicle owner would choose one location over another.

Don't get disappointed at AC charging speeds. AC is not for fast charging. AC is for attracting you to spend hours at a location to spend money. AC is for letting your bike sit in the garage overnight to be ready for tomorrow's commute.

If you want more than 3kw AC charging, then start hacking it up with Diginow and all the other home brew aftermarket options that Zero owners have be working on since 2010. Wanting faster AC charging on a bike that can take DCFC is like wanting to put a turbo on a supercharger because you want more top end power. Like, welcome to being an early adopter

I Know I'm lucky as I live in California. I never have trouble getting to where I want to go because DC charging is everywhere and my bike can take CCS. But looking at the the tea leaves of the future, you'll have an easier time trying to get your legislators to facilitate more DC chargers than you will getting makers of DC capable bikes supporting faster AC charging. Even vaporware makers, except Damon, (advertised as having up to 12kw AC charging as well as facilitating higher rates with  DCFC),  are spec'ing out their bikes with ~3.3 kw capability on AC level 2. (Verge TS, Evoke 6061).

It's just the state of the industry with DC capable bikes right now.
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"Life is a deathbound train"

2024 Energica Experia
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flynnstig82r

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Re: DSR/X
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2024, 10:44:42 PM »

12 kW AC might be similar or a little better than Energica’s DC in miles-per-minute of charging since my SS9 usually charged somewhere in the 9-18 kW range due to overheating and Zero’s are quite a bit more efficient in Wh/mi on the highway in my experience. Energica really needs to implement better battery cooling if they want DC charging to be a decisive advantage, IMO.
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2007 Yamaha FJR1300 AE

Past bikes:
2020 Energica SS9 13.4 kWh
2017 Zero SR 13.0 kWh
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2016 MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800
2012 Yamaha FZ6R

Motoproponent

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Re: DSR/X
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2024, 10:57:22 PM »

Was that you on the Veloce at Mt. Tam yesterday for the Easter Sunrise?
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"Life is a deathbound train"

2024 Energica Experia
@motoproponent on Youtube

flynnstig82r

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Re: DSR/X
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2024, 01:05:11 AM »

No, that bike went to motorcycle heaven in 2020.
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2007 Yamaha FJR1300 AE

Past bikes:
2020 Energica SS9 13.4 kWh
2017 Zero SR 13.0 kWh
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2016 MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800
2012 Yamaha FZ6R

Specter

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Re: DSR/X
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2024, 10:44:46 AM »

12 kW AC might be similar or a little better than Energica’s DC in miles-per-minute of charging since my SS9 usually charged somewhere in the 9-18 kW range due to overheating and Zero’s are quite a bit more efficient in Wh/mi on the highway in my experience. Energica really needs to implement better battery cooling if they want DC charging to be a decisive advantage, IMO.

I have not seen this to be an issue, even when I got the battery into the yellow heat wise.  12 KW ac is only about 30 amps DC, yes you can push 35 amps when the battery is low, when it's in it's 80s and up, you are only getting about 30 amps thru to the battery.  Remember, the AC charging, there is additional heat being put into the bike in general because the rectification is happening ON the bike.  DC charging you can put up to 75 A in the bike it lets you dial up to, even when heating up, i've seen it still take over 40 w/o significant curtailing due to heat.

I would love to see liquid cooling, but of course that will add weight, more stuff to go wrong, and of course cost, and it'd have to be on when the battery is charging.  Surrounding the battery cells with liquid is a whole new ballgame, each cell MUST be waterproof now, a substantial cost increase.  Yes each cell in theory IS sealed up, and one might consider waterproof, but when put into a system that will be under pressure, the pump forcing the liquid roundy roundy, that's an entirely different sealing system on the battery's now.  No more just taping the ends shut type of thing.

Overall that's kind of a conundrum we are in here.  They are not going to put more charging stations up until there are more cars demanding them, yet people are not going to buy the electric cars until there are stations to support them, however tesla is doing pretty well at propagating all over.  I think that is going to be a major turning point there, when his stations eventually are open to most / all vehicles and they can say, yes support IS there, not just for one model either.

Aaron
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flynnstig82r

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Re: DSR/X
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2024, 09:07:15 PM »

I only saw high charging speeds across multiple charges on cold winter days. The rest of the time it was more like 12-14, dipping down to 9 on 100+ deg days, and as low as 6 on a particularly miserable crawl across the central valley in summer.

I do understand that AC can also slow down due to heat. My Zero SR 13.0 only ever gave me ~5.2 kW out of 7.1 kW between the OBC, 2.5 kW charge tank, and 3.3 kW ElCon charger. It would dip down to 4.4 on hot days and I couldn't touch the ElCon with my bare hands for quite a while after it was done.

Liquid cooled cells might be a bridge too far right now, but I still feel that Energica could implement better cooling if they made it a priority, even if it's just additional fans and airflow, or using additional metal mass as a heatsink. The motor and AC charger on the Experia are both liquid cooled, why not have them absorb heat from the battery during charging and shed the heat when underway?
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2007 Yamaha FJR1300 AE

Past bikes:
2020 Energica SS9 13.4 kWh
2017 Zero SR 13.0 kWh
2011 Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring
2016 MV Agusta Turismo Veloce 800
2012 Yamaha FZ6R
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