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[JaimeC]

https://electrek.co/2023/08/22/signs-point-to-e-bike-company-sondors-in-peril-leaving-riders-stranded/

[Fran K]

"wasn’t shipping based on order number but rather prioritizing customers that it could quickly reach with its deliveries or who lived in states where SONDORS had already received regulatory approval for registrations and established distribution solutions."

We coulld use a few paragraphs from moto journalists about this regulatory process to get a certificate of origion that will simply transfer into a title.

[wavelet]

Yet another proof of this simple rule:
Startups and motor vehicles don't mix.

Making motor vehicles is heavy industrial production, which relies on doing a good job with mass manufacturing & supply chains, and requires huge amounts of cash upfront (much more than can be collected via preorders) for setting up assembly lines, pre-paying vendors, homologation etc. Then also doing a good job of production QC, sales network, parts-supply network, technician training for support etc. for long-term support.

The actual design of the product or even building a couple of prototypes is a very tiny part of all this.

Startups have no relative advantage here. This isn't pure software, and the marginal cost of making, selling and distributing another unit isn't zero.

[Specter]

Well, Energica so far seems to be doing fairly well and they are not exactly billionaires.

Of course there is Rivian too, but they were spoon fed megabucks by amazon so don't really apply to your rule.

Those who come in with an open mind, and a SOLID business model, and understanding of business, have a good chance.

The whole E vehicle thing, is still fairly new, and E  Motorcycles VERY new, so yes, first on the block CAN count for a lot IF it works.  I think another thing that killed a lot of companies is putting out a product too fast and then being eaten alive by recalls and repairs, and the subsequent damage to your reputation, which when it's THAT severe, is almost impossible to get out from under.

another problem and it isn't really fair to ANY startup really is  that, the world is going to shit real fast here and about to collapse economically.  People don't have money anymore and those who do, are holding it very close to their vest, they are afraid of what tomorrow is bringing and don't want to spend on what many consider at this point to be toys.  If the economy was going good, these companies would have had a lot better run out of the gate than they do now when people are not buying even when the product is good!

It'll be interesting to see what the landscape looks like Ebike wise in 2 to 3 years.  Hell, we'll probably have a global EMP by then and all living back in the stoneage so this all will be moot.. some archive for another civilization to dig up in 1500 years.

Hey energica, can you design a bike that runs off tubes and CRT"s     It might survive!!

Aaron

[wavelet]

Well, Energica so far seems to be doing fairly well and they are not exactly billionaires.

Of course there is Rivian too, but they were spoon fed megabucks by amazon so don't really apply to your rule.

Those who come in with an open mind, and a SOLID business model, and understanding of business, have a good chance.

The whole E vehicle thing, is still fairly new, and E  Motorcycles VERY new, so yes, first on the block CAN count for a lot IF it works.  I think another thing that killed a lot of companies is putting out a product too fast and then being eaten alive by recalls and repairs, and the subsequent damage to your reputation, which when it's THAT severe, is almost impossible to get out from under.

another problem and it isn't really fair to ANY startup really is  that, the world is going to shit real fast here and about to collapse economically.  People don't have money anymore and those who do, are holding it very close to their vest, they are afraid of what tomorrow is bringing and don't want to spend on what many consider at this point to be toys.  If the economy was going good, these companies would have had a lot better run out of the gate than they do now when people are not buying even when the product is good!

It'll be interesting to see what the landscape looks like Ebike wise in 2 to 3 years.  Hell, we'll probably have a global EMP by then and all living back in the stoneage so this all will be moot.. some archive for another civilization to dig up in 1500 years.

Hey energica, can you design a bike that runs off tubes and CRT"s     It might survive!!

Aaron

Energica wasn't a startup. They were an internal venture by CRP, a very successful, 40 y.o. high-end automotive vendor with unique expertise in 3D printing; the original purpose wasn't to build a saleable product, but to demo the 3D printing process -- they initially planned on making a car, than decided a motorcycle would be much cheaper for the same result.
They not only had money but all the contacts in the racing world, and didn't rely on deposits for working capital.
Energica was even publicly listed (in the Milan Stock Exchange).

Notably, CRP and Energica still decided to sell a majority ownership stake in it to an outside EV conglomerate, Ideanomics, 1.5 years ago.

[HoodRichOG]

I saw one the other day and it looked pretty nice