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[Specter]

Swampnut.  From what I have seen, and I am not an expert, nor claim to be, like some others.  There are 2 genera's of Tesla chargers it seems. 

The Super Charger, which is tesla only, has a tesla plug on it, and I believe can charge up to 350 KW in some places.  This talks to your car, and I believe all the stats you need are shown on your car's dash screen.  Because of this, there are no other external user interfaces that I have seen, ie card reader, touch screen, on off switch etc etc.  You MUST have a Tesla car to turn it on period... for now.

Then there are the Destination Chargers, ie us po folk's chargers for the rednecks out in the sticks.
They top out around 50 kw or so, at least the ones I have seen do.
The destination chargers I have seen have a Tesla Adapter on them, CCS on them, possibly a Chabcdefghijk123 whatever the hell it is or a combo of those, 1 always being a Tesla cord.  By virtue of the way CCS operates, these WILL have external controls on them, so the user can interact to turn the thing on.
For the ones that do only have a tesla cord on it, the dongle thing WILL WORK to charge your bike on it.

Right now, the Tesla Superstations,  there is really no user interface on it, no way to talk to it, turn it on etc that I have seen on the stations that I have looked at.  Because of this, there is no way to turn the stupid things on for any non tesla charging.

Tesla says they are in the works to fix this, between the other car Manu's swapping their charging plug to be tesla standard, and the dongle thing so that the tesla plug WILL convert into your CCS-1 plug, it's getting there.

There is going to have to be some sort of communication between you and the supercharger to turn it on.  Now, whether Tesla makes a phone app, a card you slide past a sensor or what, nobody is quite sure yet.  Since the thing already does talk to your car wirelessly, I think the easiest fix would be to just make an app, have you open an account or something to pay for the power obviously, and use your phones comms to talk to it to turn it on.  The phone can do WiFi, Bluetooth, and NFRF comms, like the touch to read the credit card thingie, so I also think this fix can be done entirely by software.  The antenna that is looking for your cars speech, can also listen for your phone's speech to it as well.

Once the plug is in and the sequence activated, the car and charger can then talk all they need to each other to get the rest of the logistics going and you are charging.

I will be interested to see how much they are going to charge for the power myself.  Since you are not using his product yet, the car, will there be a premium for non T charging?

I would love to see Tesla come out with a bike, but please for the love of all things 2 wheels, NOT as ugly as that hideous pickup truck they rolled out.

Aaron

[SwampNut]

Some SCs are not Tesla only; that's the entire point of this thread.  You can have an SC with CCS.  These are all DC fast chargers.

Tesla has already said they won't put readers on the chargers, you use the app.  In the Tesla app there's an option for that.

As I said before, destination chargers can only do 240VAC, level 1 or 2 at up to 40A.  The equipment could do 80, but why would you, they are limited to keep demand charges down.  There is no interaction you just plug in (other than, many places have them turned off and an employee has to turn them on manually).  You can charge anything here.  I've never seen or heard of a 50kW version, and of course, the J connector is limited to 19.2 anyway.

Cars and Superchargers do not communicate wirelessly, it on the wire.

Tesla is charging more for non-Teslas.

Musk hates motorcycles.  And I have a CT on reservation and would have bought one instantly if they actually had shipped them.

[Motoproponent]

Many of the V4 Superchargers have a credit card reader and a Magic Dock. Musk had said earlier that he loathed screens and point of sale equipment on the chargers because they are a common failure point/vandalism target. But to get access to the sweet sweet DCFC grant money their charging network has to be available to other manufacturers.

Also Destination Chargers and Wall Chargers are all AC like Swampnut said. There is no incentive money for wider rollout of AC Chargers like destination chargers and wall chargers. Property owners and homeowners can get a tax break for the year they get installed, but no network is getting incentives to make more of them. They rolled out as a way for business owners in the service industry to attract the affluent type of people that had Model S Teslas. Tesla would share a portion , or all, of the cost of installation in exchange for exclusive parking. Tesla early adopters got perks like lifetime free supercharging and rock star parking at bars, restaurants, and wineries. Bars , restaurants, and wineries got people with Tesla money in their pockets to hang out for a few hours and probably spend money. When Tesla world domination phase three started, it was more well known that Tesla Patents weren't being enforced and people found that you could get an adapter for Tesla to J1772 and use the AC Chargers. There isn't any vehicle authentication beyond a resistance signal to let the vehicle and the charger know both are plugged in and whether or not the vehicle has battery chemistry that requires ventilation.(I know, not a thing with lithium chemistry but J1772 standard was produced when manufacturers were looking at Lead Acid and NiMH). Since AC current is basically rectified by the vehicles on board charger, it is relatively simple to map the lugs and pins from NACS to J1772 and make an adapter.

The supercharger network was always going to be an exclusive DC network for only Tesla vehicles. The TSC network reliability and availability kept Tesla sales high as it was the best game in town. It wasn't until Musk saw that he was leaving hundreds of millions in grant money on the table with the exclusive network based on the "Tesla Plug" that the NACS adoption push started. Aptera signed on first, I think, when Tesla pushed the NACS to be open source, or "open source" as it still was not a recognized standard by the Society of Automotive Engineers. Technically Tesla is meeting the requirements for Uncle Sam's grant money by no longer having an exclusive network but those cars from Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, etc, and the grant payments associated with them, wont be on the market till 2025 or so......hence the Magic Dock solution to have more manufacturers able to use the network right now. Thing is, he's not doing it to be nice, Musk is not altruistic in this way. He wants widespread EV adoption but sees CCS as a dead standard, and has no problem using the appeal of the supercharger network to move the needle. I mean other charger networks are providing NACS plugs now. As soon as there are vehicles from other manufacturers that use NACS on the road, Musk can get infrastructure grants without spending money on Magic docks. The Magic Dock rollout will cease (IMHO). Then, and probably only then, will we see an adapter for NACS to CCS, but it is very likely it will only work for the legacy cars from manufacturers that have moved to NACS.  Even when there is a NACS to CCS adapter, it will not work on a Supercharger unless Tesla authorizes that make and model.

TL;DR

Tesla has AC and DC chargers that use the same plug. AC chargers will send power to anything that can receive it whether from the native plug or an adapter. It just turns on like a light switch. DC Chargers require specific manufacturer to manufacturer permission and won't work, even with an adapter, if you don't have that specific permission.  A very select few of those DC Chargers have an adapter built in and will flow power without pre-negotiated manufacturer to manufacturer permission. The OP on this thread has provided a very handy map of those very specific DC Chargers.

Thanks DonTom!! I appreciate your efforts to make my life a little bit easier.

[Specter]

DC chargers  will work without manu to manu permissions.  The 'permissions' are more a part of the DC protocol, and not based on who the manu of the Charger / Vehicle are.  While this info may be exchanged it is NOT critical for the thing to fire up, unless the charger is specifically programmed To act that way.    My DC charger will charge pretty much ANY vehicle that has CCS-1.  Ive tried it on several vehicles already and it's talked and fired up flawlessly, this Includes Tesla with the adapter thingie since I did not get a Tesla plug on my charger, but just CCS1.  Id like to see a standard vehicle where it does NOT work, so I can talk to the manu and ask why, and for a fix.

Right now, it seems the app Plug Share is working on something to try to centralize all the different charging apps, so instead of having to have 35 different apps on your phone, you can just plug the info into theirs and it'll interface with all the other companies and you can charge on their network using the PS app only.   IMO I think this is a very good idea, and would simplify things greatly, and pray they stay away from the allure of turning the thing into an advertising cancer.

Aaron

[Demoni]

There is going to have to be some sort of communication between you and the supercharger to turn it on.  Now, whether Tesla makes a phone app, a card you slide past a sensor or what, nobody is quite sure yet.  Since the thing already does talk to your car wirelessly, I think the easiest fix would be to just make an app, have you open an account or something to pay for the power obviously, and use your phones comms to talk to it to turn it on. 

The Tesla Magic dock superchargers require users to use the Tesla app to activate a charge session. You indicate what charger unit you want to use and the app unlocks the NACS to CCS adapter. The charge process starts the same as any other CCS station.
It is theoretically possible to charge a CCS vehicle with any NACS charger using an adapter. However Tesla is very protective of their network and will likely never enable the ability to charge with a 3rd party adapter. Since the app is the only way to start a charge session for a non Tesla vehicle they retain control of your ability to charge.

Please note that most EV vehicles use the DIN spec 70121 standard for DC charge communication. This standard does not natively support the communication of a unique vehicle ID via the charge ports data wires. Due to this "plug & charge" is not possible, requiring DC station providers to require users to enable charge sessions via an app or at the station it's self. Tesla developed a proprietary system to allow their vehicles to self identify when plugged into a Tesla charger. EVGO has a "auto charge" feature that uses a vehicles MAC address, users can tie a specific vehicle to their account allow a session to start when it's plugged in. As some vehicles do not provide unique MAC id's this feature is not universal.

ISO 15118 is anther newer standard released in 2014 that addresses some of the short comings of DIN 70121, including: secure communication of digital signatures (unique ID), charging schedules & vehicle to grid (V2G).
Vehicle manufactures and DC station manufactures are slowly introducing compatibility of this standard.

[Sources]
https://www.switch-ev.com/blog/the-battle-between-iso-15118-and-din-spec-70121
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15118

[DonTom]

Telsa has recently opened many more SuperChargers for Magic Dock. See here for the latest.


And a new (non-Tesla) CCS location on Hwy 395 that I will find handy.



-Don-  Reno, NV

[Motoproponent]

And a new (non-Tesla) CCS location on Hwy 395 that I will find handy.



-Don-  Reno, NV

That is such a great spot for my trips to Hawthorne. I can skip the one in Bridgeport now. Plus it's only a mile from Mountain View BBQ. the perfect place to wait while your bike charges

[Specter]

So you go eat lunch a mile away?
How do you get there?

There is a free charger by where I shop, sometimes I'll use it, and walk the block or two to the shopping center and do my stuff while the bike charges.
The only problem is, people see me walking in all my gear and ask, did you break down, do you  need a ride, do you  need any help
I have to explain to them, oh IM fine, Im just taking a short walk while my bike recharges!  I kind of feel guilty sometimes that they stopped.

Was just curious if you experience the same!

Aaron

[DonTom]

That is such a great spot for my trips to Hawthorne. I can skip the one in Bridgeport now. Plus it's only a mile from Mountain View BBQ. the perfect place to wait while your bike charges

Hawthrone, NV used to have a free CCS but it has been broken for quite a while now. It is very rare to find an old CCS that is broken which has been repaired, when free or not.  They just stay broken. The CCS business is a tough one.


I have used the CCS in Bridgeport at the expensive Shell Gas station many times.


That is one of my favorite rides from Reno. I really enjoy the Baja Tacos at the Burger Barn in Bridgeport. The best ones anywhere, IMO.


I get a free CCS charge in Garnerville, NV on the way down.




-Don-  Auburn, CA

[DonTom]

That is such a great spot for my trips to Hawthorne. I can skip the one in Bridgeport now. Plus it's only a mile from Mountain View BBQ. the perfect place to wait while your bike charges

I have ridden by that place countless times. I will now have to try that place out. But the bike will probably get done charging before I can get done eating after the two-mile round trip. But I don't mind walking a couple of miles, I do a lot of hiking.


Even the Burger barn from the Shell Gas station is probably a half mile each way and I think nothing of that. That is like the perfect deal. My Experia  is usually done charging (to 100%)  at the exact same time I get back from eating there. BTW, I can easily make it all the way back to Reno on that one charge.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Motoproponent]

I used to have a Onewheel but sold it after I crashed it and pulverized my collar bone. (it's such a common injury with that thing you would think that's what it was designed to do). I'm thinking about getting another one specifically to get around on while my bike charges. I mean I'll be wearing motorcycle gear...so...

But to answer your question, I have very infrequently had people stop and ask if I'm OK or need a ride when walking to a coffee shop or something like that. I indicate I am OK and usually where I'm going is close enough to see from where we are so a ride isn't necessary.
 

[Specter]

Get an airbag suit, it'll save your collarbone.  The one wheel you should be going fast enough to activate the thing and if it detects you doing a cartwheel / face plant etc it should deploy and cushion you BEFORE you impact.

That is one thing I am learning about my airbag suit, they say that sometimes they don't detect the electric bikes when you are sitting still, like at a train crossing, (because it can't feel the vibrations of the bike) so thinks you are still so deactivates, so it won't give you the sitting at a light, getting hit protection, however I have found that, listening to music,  drumming my hands on my bike to the beat of the music, apparently is close enough to the vibrations of a gas bike that it keeps my suit in the green.

Hopefully nobody plows into me when Im sitting at a light / stopsign etc but if they do, nice to know my suit should still hopefully deploy.

Aaron