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[electrictwowheeler]

I recently got the new battery for my 2020 SR/S Premium. Fantastic!
Here are some things I discovered. Much better range than when Bike was new, full regen at 100% SOC. No power cutback at zero SOC, when charging at 6 KW the charge starts to taper above 70% but tapers less as battery temp rises, almost no tapering at batt temp of 30C.

 I can access the console through the OBD2 port so here is some BMS info.
I charged to 100% and rode the bike down to zero % SOC, then kept riding till the bike shut off. (see photos) It was a hot day, around 80F.
The pic of the dash at 0 % SOC and 144 miles corresponds to the pic of the BMS data showing 6 % SOC.
The pic of the dash showing 0 % SOC and 152 miles corresponds to the pic of the BMS data when the bike shut off.
At zero SOC on the dash I rode up and down a quarter mile long hill so I could coast down to a charger when the bike died. Due to the speed limit I could only go about 35 mph and there were two stoplights so lots of stops and starts. I was driving normally with brisk starts, not trying to conserve energy. The bike died going uphill at 35 mph as I accelerated to make a light. At zero SOC the bike would still pull hard up to 75 mph . I'm sure it would go faster but I was on a 35 mph city street. Totally different than the old battery at 0 % SOC.

I have the BCB battery that is capped at 14.4K supposedly. The BMS data shows a charge target of 117.5 volts but when charging, the target starts to drop at about 95% SOC on the dash. Then as the battery voltage increases, the charge target decreases until they meet around 114.9 volts and the charger shuts off. So the max voltage is capped at just under 115 volts. At zero SOC on the dash the battery voltage  was 93.876 as reported by the BMS. At 100 % on the dash the BMS shows 90 %. At zero % SOC on the dash the BMS reports 6% so it looks like I am allowed about 85% of the actual battery capacity.

The BMS shows a charge target of 117.5 volts for the uncapped battery and the BMS reports 90.75 volts at 2% so Zero is charging the new battery higher and letting it discharge much lower. My original battery operated between 116.3 and 95 volts. Its also interesting that the BMS is reporting a capacity of 144 amp hours when the battery is only 146 amp hours! The old battery was 128 amp hours but only reported as 114 amp hours on the BMS so it looks like Zero is allowing more of the new batteries capacity to be used.

Has anyone with the larger battery done any tests like this? It would be interesting to see how they are different. I love the new battery!!

[MVetter]

Data! I love data. If 117.5 is indeed the charge target for the 110% that means that the max vdc for the cells is 4.196 instead of the previous value of 4.157vdc.

[electrictwowheeler]

It does appear that they are essentially charging to 4.2 v which is the max spec according to the Farasis data sheet, but is that 110%. Remember that this is the supposed 12.6 nominal software, not the 15.1. If you figure 144 ah times 3.7v times 28 you get 14.918 KWH available. If I am allowed 85% of that, it's 12.680 KWH available. The old battery only allowed about 11.8 KWH available. My range is definitely increased over what it was when the bike was new. Thank you Zero!
Does anyone know what actually happens when you charge one of the newer bikes to 110%?

[Zelidar]

<<< ... better range than when Bike was new, full regen at 100% SOC. No power cutback at zero SOC, when charging at 6 KW the charge starts to taper above 70% ... >>>

Also the new battery here, and those same findings. I hope this new design will also pass the 34'000 km mark and go much, much beyond that. In my case the previous two batteries (with the original design) didn't; they then suddenly plunged below 80% (magic charging, etc.) and the logs convinced Zero to replace them at no cost (under the 5 years warranty). My SR/F has 81'000 km, and still drives like new. Best motorcycle I have ever owned.

[Grauteufel]

As someone who was considering maybe an SRF after our energica dealer picked up zero again (haven't made it down for a test ride), two people needing three new batteries is a little bit horrifying. What was cause of all these failures? Did you have pay for the new batt or did they warranty it?

[Zelidar]

What was cause of all these failures? Did you have pay for the new batt or did they warranty it?

There is a 5 years warranty from Zero / Farasis on the battery, which applies to anyone who has taken resonably good care of the battery as described in the manual.

From the symptoms, not a continued and linear degradation, but a sudden loss of capacity after (in my case) about 30'000 km. It would seem we are dealing with mechanical / physical problem with how the pouches were assembled in the factory leading to a sudden capacity loss which is, I must say, quiet well managed by the BMS. The "degraded" batteries are still perfectly usable, in fact I did a 800 km trip last summer with one. You'll have less range and the SoC is less reliable, but I still had all the torque I wanted.

More info on Zero Motorcycles batteries is avalaible here:

from r/ZeroMotorcycles

As for Energica, they are also dealing with the need of using high density LiOn batteries, thus must be facing similar assembly chalenges. I don't know about their reliability but their warranty is smaller (3 years or 50,000 km). You will have to pay to bring it to the same 5 years as Zero: https://www.energicamotor.com/us/extend-your-ride/

[Specter]

correct me if I am wrong but I think Energica is now offering the warranty at 5 years on their bikes.  I think what this is .. is... they are seeing that their batteries are built so sturdy that the warranty really is a non issue, they are having pretty much almost NO warranty issues, save for a potential manufacturing defect here and there, and are saying, well here's the proof in the pudding, the batteries last just as long  as we expected them to, lets put the warranty out to the full 5 years. so it looks like everyone elses warranty.

At the end of the day.  If the warranty was 3 years, or 5 years...if it's not being used, then it's kind of moot, and just 'looks nice stuff'.

Another aspect is, companies have to protect themselves from their suppliers shitty deals too.  Ok, lets take a look at zero I believe it was who pretty much darned near had an entire year recalled due to shit batteries.  NO company is going to say, sell me shitty parts, because it's cheaper, however when they DO sell a bike, and the battery dies, because the battery had shit parts in it, you are not going to go,  oh ok, it's NOT zero's fault, it's the BATTERY MAKERS fault !!!  and go after them.  nope,  you are going straight after zero, because your zero, is not running.  the warranty is on the bike, it's not running  FIX IT !

Now granted I am sure zero went after them for it, but still, the damage is done to them, it was 'their' warranty, and they had to honor it and deal with all the fallout.

Company B comes along, and are told,  yes, these battery pouches are good for 5 years... after just watching Z get their ahnoos' stretched over bad battery packs, are going to be like, hmm well,  lets warranty this thing for 3 years, while we make SURE they are good for the full 5.  Fast forward some years, The battery is performing as well or better than expected so then are saying, ok give them the full 5, it's good for it.

When it comes to testing the longevity of something...there really is no substitution for actual longevity.  Sometimes that lesson is learned the hard way.

Aaron

[electrictwowheeler]

According to the Energica website it's $1095 for the extra 2 years of battery on all models. The original 3 year warranty has a 31,000 mile limit. I'm about 4 years and 36,000 miles into my bikes battery warranty. Some Energica batteries have been replaced under warranty so even if it is rare, it is still possible for you to be the unlucky one.

[Specter]

out of curiosity.  those who got replaced under warranty  was it manu defect, ie a spring come loose or a tab or was it a cell fail?  do you have any info.  really curious what the failure mode is.

aaron

[princec]

On the Zero batteries? Cell failure.

Cas

[electrictwowheeler]

Here is a video explaining the battery issues and speculating what the causes might be. I don't think Zero has shared what the actual problem is.

Go to youtube.com and search this.

Zero SR/S magic charging Montero